Charlie Kirk Shot

[Szdfan]

I share your grief, and I do think we can honor Charlie Kirk’s courage and the good we saw in his efforts. At the same time, I don’t think “asking uncomfortable questions” is what made him controversial, and it wasn’t the Gospel or Christianity either. His controversy came from the way he engaged in culture wars and tied Christian faith to a particular political program.

Honoring his memory should mean naming clearly what is faith, what is politics, and what is grief—so that we do not confuse them. It means honoring what is good, and also learning from the rest.

But maybe that comes after a time of grief and lament. It's harder to do well in the heat of the moment.

I have listened to hours of his discussions on college campuses. Have you viewed any or are you just forming your opinion from other talking heads?

If not, then shut up and listen is fitting.

Since you've listened to hours of Kirk, I'd appreciate it if you could explain this quote to me that's resurfaced in the aftermath of his assasination --

I can't stand empathy. I think empathy is a made-up, New Age term that — it does a lot of damage, but it is very effective when it comes to politics.

How do you interpret that?

[ken_sylvania]

I can't stand empathy. I think empathy is a made-up, New Age term that — it does a lot of damage, but it is very effective when it comes to politics.

How do you interpret that?

What was the context in which that quote was given?

[Bootstrap]

I share your grief, and I do think we can honor Charlie Kirk’s courage and the good we saw in his efforts. At the same time, I don’t think “asking uncomfortable questions” is what made him controversial, and it wasn’t the Gospel or Christianity either. His controversy came from the way he engaged in culture wars and tied Christian faith to a particular political program.

Honoring his memory should mean naming clearly what is faith, what is politics, and what is grief—so that we do not confuse them. It means honoring what is good, and also learning from the rest.

But maybe that comes after a time of grief and lament. It's harder to do well in the heat of the moment.

I have listened to hours of his discussions on college campuses. Have you viewed any or are you just forming your opinion from other talking heads?

If not, then shut up and listen is fitting.

I have listened to some of his talks, though not “hours.” From what I have seen:

• Culture wars were central to his message.
• Many of his faith references carried the tone of Christian nationalism.
• He often urged churches to become politically aligned.
• His style was combative, sometimes dehumanizing toward opponents.

To me, Kirk’s public Christianity often looked more like identity politics with religious language than the way of Jesus in the Sermon on the Mount. His rhetoric tended to divide people into allies and enemies along political lines rather than biblical lines. That feels far from Jesus’ words: “My kingdom is not of this world” (John 18:36), and far from the peacemaking Jesus embodied.

He gave out MAGA hats, not Bibles. He often brought politics into the pulpit, he did not bring the Gospel of Jesus into politics. His focus seemed to be political mobilization more than Christian discipleship.

You may see that differently. I want to be careful not to go too far into a debate about these things, it doesn't feel like the right time for that. But if you can show me that I got it wrong, I'm all ears. Private messaging may be better to avoid changing the tone of this thread too much.

[Robert]

I can't stand empathy. I think empathy is a made-up, New Age term that — it does a lot of damage, but it is very effective when it comes to politics.

How do you interpret that?

What was the context in which that quote was given?

Context is quite important. I would have no idea. I never heard him say that.

I never said I fully agree with him on everything. I do not. I enjoyed the dialogue he spurred on college campuses. I think he did well at having respectful conversations. I have never seen him attack anyone. He would present his ideas and explain why he thought they were right, then respectfully listen to the other's viewpoint, then respond, again, respectfully. I saw him call down the crowd multiple times and tell them to let the person speak.

Clipping one sentence of a 10 minute conversation is not always fair or respectful.

[Robert]

His style was combative, sometimes dehumanizing toward opponents.

I have NEVER seen him do that.

You are welcome to disagree with his perspective of church and state. I do also.

The man has not been dead for a day and can we not just be respectful until the funeral? Why must we point out all the negative as his family and others grieve?

That does not seem very empathic to me.

[Bootstrap]

His style was combative, sometimes dehumanizing toward opponents.

I have NEVER seen him do that.

From what I have seen, Kirk often tried to be respectful toward the person directly in front of him. At the same time, he could be mocking or dismissive when speaking about those who weren’t in the room, using lines like “They are out to get you” or “Trump is the only thing standing between you and them.”

He sometimes framed churches as front lines in a battle, telling pastors they must “stand against them” or risk being complicit. That treats political opponents not as neighbors to love but as threats to defeat. He also used labels like “snowflakes” or “radicals who hate America,” turning contempt and mockery into a form of entertainment. Over time, this kind of rhetoric has become so normalized in some circles that many no longer notice it. Some even assume this is what churches are supposed to do, and view those who resist as unfaithful or suspect.

I think that kind of rhetoric draws hard enemy lines, stokes fear, and encourages hostility. To me, that feels at odds with Jesus’ call to love our enemies, to trust God, and to seek first the kingdom of God.

As we respond to events like this, we each choose which path we want to follow.

[Nomad]

Its not so much that we all agreed 100% with everything Charlie said. I actually never heard or watched a single debate of his. I probably didn't agree with him on much and what little I know of him is from short clips sent to me by some of my more politically right leaning friends. I just assumed he was a bit of a Christian nationalist type and I personally am not a huge fan of guns like he seemed to be. My dad hunts but I dont. I dont have any guns and the only weapon I own is a samurai sword that I probably flexed in the mirror with once or twice in my early 20s...but otherwise its collected dust.

All the quotes that are resurfacing sound awful...I get it, some of you didnt care for the guy. But for some reason, digging up a bunch of cherrypicked quotes on the following day after we all got to see him get ruthlessly shot in the neck has a level of cruel crassness to it.

I will say this about him in what little I saw of him. He was unapologetically and unashamed about his Christian faith which I find admirable. One verse comes to mind:

Matthew 10:32 LSB
[32] “Therefore everyone who confesses Me before men, I will also confess him before My Father who is in heaven.

I hope he is in Heaven...and I hope God is as gracious with him as he will be with me.

[Bootstrap]

All the quotes that are resurfacing sound awful...I get it, some of you didnt care for the guy. But for some reason, digging up a bunch of cherrypicked quotes on the following day after we all got to see him get ruthlessly shot in the neck has a level of cruel crassness to it.

I don't think these are cherrypicked quotes, I think this framing was fairly central for Kirk. But I agree that this is not the best thing to be spending our time and effort on in this thread, and I don't want to go further down this path. I only provided these quotes when Robert mentioned he had never seen Kirk say this kind of thing.

More important: what is OUR response as Christians?

`I hope he is in Heaven...and I hope God is as gracious with him as he will be with me.

Amen.

And as we respond to events like this, we each choose which path we want to follow. It's good to take the time to examine our own hearts before God.

[Bootstrap]

The man has not been dead for a day and can we not just be respectful until the funeral? Why must we point out all the negative as his family and others grieve?

I agree. I think the most constructive thing we can do right now is to respond in grief.

It also helps if we avoid asking questions or making challenges that end up steering the conversation toward the very debates we’d rather not have in this moment. That way, we leave room for lament and respect.

[Nomad]

All the quotes that are resurfacing sound awful...I get it, some of you didnt care for the guy. But for some reason, digging up a bunch of cherrypicked quotes on the following day after we all got to see him get ruthlessly shot in the neck has a level of cruel crassness to it.

I don't think these are cherrypicked quotes, I think this framing was fairly central for Kirk. But I agree that this is not the best thing to be spending our time and effort on in this thread, and I don't want to go further down this path. I only provided these quotes when Robert mentioned he had never seen Kirk say this kind of thing.

More important: what is OUR response as Christians?

`I hope he is in Heaven...and I hope God is as gracious with him as he will be with me.

Amen.

And as we respond to events like this, we each choose which path we want to follow. It's good to take the time to examine our own hearts before God.

By "cherrypicked"...I mean they are a small portion of narrative from a bigger narrative that he was likely giving. Its a small excerpt with little context given and likely from a heated debate. But yes, the quotes in and of themselves sound bad...but I have a hard time making a judgement on little sound bites. It feels odd to me talking about this right after he died...