Who speaks for the black community?

[Joy]

I have a friend who is behind bars for murder, says he's innocent (which is rare among the many inmates that I have written). A group similar to the Innocence Project took up his case, and worked tirelessly for years to free him. This group won't accept a case unless they are sure he is innocent. But the state won't listen to them.

He's been incarcerated since January, 1982, and his case in detail is online. He's a white man. No justice for him.

[temporal1]

In respect to both poverty and fatherlessness, I am reminded of something my best friend from HS told me once when we were back in the States from the mission field.

This has to do with divorce & remarriage, but I am not necessarily suggesting any connection between that issue and the one under discussion here. Just the similarity that after generations of any type of behavior or situation, it becomes "normalized".

My friend's mother had been divorced before she met his (my friend) father, and married.
My friend later was in a relationship (not an immoral one) with a woman who grew up across the road from us. Her husband had left her after she refused to join the cult he was involved in. (I knew both families pretty well, especially his.)

I do not suspect that there was ever any immorality involved at all. My friend decided not to pursue the relationship with her, simply because he said that he did not want to be a part in continuing the divorce and remarriage 'trend' in his family background. In essence, he did not want to "normalize' it.

It has become so 'normal' for a woman in certain sectors of society, both in categories of so-called race and of economic position, to be a single (often never married) mother, that it has become normal, basically expected.

As long as it is completely acceptable to those in those categories, it will not stop.
Boys grow up without fathers, and it's a big learning curve for them to know how to be an engaged father themselves, and to even think of the importance of it, bot for themselves, and for their children.

This rings true and is sad. In white families, too, altho, from what i’ve seen over years, many young white girls with babies, the babies are mixed race, i doubt fathers are present.
i have one family member with several boys, all by different black fathers, no father present. i do not believe this is uncommon. she is proud and unapologetic. with her parents at hand, the boys seem to be doing well. i believe there is social pressure on white girls to have unmarried sex, and babies, with non-white boys.

i see everything you describe, and more. it’s taught in school, if not in curriculum, in culture.
i think both.

current politics pushing for more+more gov childcare, equal pay for women, women incentivized, taking on all male roles, i foresee more of this, single parents, not less.

somewhere, someone remarked about government REPLACING husbands and fathers via welfare.
i hope this was not a plan.
in the least, i believe it’s an unexpected consequence of different gov policies. unfortunately, instead of recognizing the failure, attempting to scale back, the plan now seems to be to increase “freedom” for young women to not be bothered with husbands and fathers, and for fathers to not be engaged.

when i was young, the “entire world” valued marriage, women NEEDED their husbands.
sex was “high value,” marriage was high value. everyone worked to pay for their choices.

this has drastically changed in my lifetime.
sex is now disconnected from anything. young people are taught the world will pay for their sex choices, no matter what those choices are. including any resulting babies. to live or die.

everyone is preoccupied with their personal rights. families suffer.

[Robert]

As for me, I think there may be another more realistic less white-centric explanation, that actually makes a lot of sense when you understand the role of white supremacy in the history and birth of this country. What would be shocking is if there weren't racism...that is the natural human condition and whiteness is the dominant culture. It just is. In the kingdom of God we can play a role in confronting it and working for reconciliation.

I see systemic racism and racism as two different things. Systemic is laws and structures in place that cap or limit. Racism can be individualistic. An individual can be racist and this can be a limit to another, but that is not due to the laws and access to public and educational facilities.

I wonder if we are talking past each other because it seems to me that you identify racism of individuals as a systemic issue. I think it can be a detriment, but the person being limited by racism from that individual can go other places. I have been judged my my race and did not get several jobs because if my race. The people were looking for someone of a minority background and immediately eliminated me from consideration. I was not even allowed an interview. So racism does happen, yet this was not a systematic issue. I was able to look other places.

We can easily see minorities that have succeeded in all aspects of life. Politics, business, sports, media, and legal. There is no law that limits anyone's ability to pursue anything they choose. This is why I say it is not systemic.

Many minorities feel they are targeted. I have felt that way whenever I have entered a community dominated by minorities. One of the facts of being in a minority group is that you are a minority. We Anabaptist are. Many do not understand the peace issue and I can be challenged and looked down on because I will not serve or salute the flag. I know this is a minority viewpoint. Society should not make provisions for me outside of my constitutional rights that it gives everyone.

[joshuabgood]

As for me, I think there may be another more realistic less white-centric explanation, that actually makes a lot of sense when you understand the role of white supremacy in the history and birth of this country. What would be shocking is if there weren't racism...that is the natural human condition and whiteness is the dominant culture. It just is. In the kingdom of God we can play a role in confronting it and working for reconciliation.

I see systemic racism and racism as two different things. Systemic is laws and structures in place that cap or limit. Racism can be individualistic. An individual can be racist and this can be a limit to another, but that is not due to the laws and access to public and educational facilities.

I wonder if we are talking past each other because it seems to me that you identify racism of individuals as a systemic issue. I think it can be a detriment, but the person being limited by racism from that individual can go other places. I have been judged my my race and did not get several jobs because if my race. The people were looking for someone of a minority background and immediately eliminated me from consideration. I was not even allowed an interview. So racism does happen, yet this was not a systematic issue. I was able to look other places.

We can easily see minorities that have succeeded in all aspects of life. Politics, business, sports, media, and legal. There is no law that limits anyone's ability to pursue anything they choose. This is why I say it is not systemic.

Many minorities feel they are targeted. I have felt that way whenever I have entered a community dominated by minorities. One of the facts of being in a minority group is that you are a minority. We Anabaptist are. Many do not understand the peace issue and I can be challenged and looked down on because I will not serve or salute the flag. I know this is a minority viewpoint. Society should not make provisions for me outside of my constitutional rights that it gives everyone.

Thanks for writing that. I understand better your position. Yes I agree. What could be referred to as direct de jure racism, had been ended in the 60s. I think there remain de facto systemic issues...along with policies, and collective actions, that, while not explicitly race based legislation, disproportionately negatively impact the black community. The legal system provides an example as well as the targeting of black communities by the white liberal abortion folks. Additionally school systems, like the one I worked at, have many policies that make it tougher for black, especially poor black, folks.

[Grace]

"joshuabgood"
Some good questions. Here is one more...in your opinion is the reason black men have been incarcerated en masse in this society because they generally make worse or more wicked choices with regard to leaving their families, to having sex before marriage, or committing crime, than do white people and thus black men deserve more prison time, more arrests and more convictions and maybe some day they will learn? And that white people on average just make better decisions with regard to staying in the family, waiting to have sex, taking the honest path, etc. Once a NYC teacher told me "it is just how they are. They have wild blood" That was a young white man btw. Another white guy used to always say BT by which he meant he made fun of "black time" This was in liberal NY.

I believe that there are a percentage of black people who have been falsely accused, because they are black. Or that they have harsher sentences for the same crimes that whites commit, possibly because they have less than stellar legal representation, in public defenders. It would be interesting to see percentages on that.

As for me, I think there may be another more realistic less white-centric explanation, that actually makes a lot of sense when you understand the role of white supremacy in the history and birth of this country. What would be shocking is if there weren't racism...that is the natural human condition and whiteness is the dominant culture. It just is. In the kingdom of God we can play a role in confronting it and working for reconciliation.

The kingdom of God can play a role in working towards reconciliation. However in my observation, it isn’t reconciliation that the majority (not all) of the black community wants. Yes, the white culture in this country has a lot of improvements to make and we need to keep working at that. But It doesn’t matter what white people do to reconcile, how much bowing white people do, how many statues get toppled, how many cop TV shows get cancelled, how many times rioters are allowed to burn and loot, it will never be enough. It doesn't matter how many advantages black people get, over white people, from Affirmative Action and from social programs, it won't be enough. In my observations, racial reconciliation is not the goal for the black community.

I don't want to be unkind, but the horrible way they have been treated in the past, will be used against white people indefinitely, even if white people today are equally horrified at what happened. That doesn't mean the white culture shouldn't work at reconciliation, though.

[GaryK]

As for me, I think there may be another more realistic less white-centric explanation, that actually makes a lot of sense when you understand the role of white supremacy in the history and birth of this country. What would be shocking is if there weren't racism...that is the natural human condition and whiteness is the dominant culture. It just is. In the kingdom of God we can play a role in confronting it and working for reconciliation.

I see systemic racism and racism as two different things. Systemic is laws and structures in place that cap or limit. Racism can be individualistic. An individual can be racist and this can be a limit to another, but that is not due to the laws and access to public and educational facilities.

I wonder if we are talking past each other because it seems to me that you identify racism of individuals as a systemic issue. I think it can be a detriment, but the person being limited by racism from that individual can go other places. I have been judged my my race and did not get several jobs because if my race. The people were looking for someone of a minority background and immediately eliminated me from consideration. I was not even allowed an interview. So racism does happen, yet this was not a systematic issue. I was able to look other places.

We can easily see minorities that have succeeded in all aspects of life. Politics, business, sports, media, and legal. There is no law that limits anyone's ability to pursue anything they choose. This is why I say it is not systemic.

Many minorities feel they are targeted. I have felt that way whenever I have entered a community dominated by minorities. One of the facts of being in a minority group is that you are a minority. We Anabaptist are. Many do not understand the peace issue and I can be challenged and looked down on because I will not serve or salute the flag. I know this is a minority viewpoint. Society should not make provisions for me outside of my constitutional rights that it gives everyone.

Thanks for writing that. I understand better your position. Yes I agree. What could be referred to as direct de jure racism, had been ended in the 60s. I think there remain de facto systemic issues...along with policies, and collective actions, that, while not explicitly race based legislation, disproportionately negatively impact the black community. The legal system provides an example as well as the targeting of black communities by the white liberal abortion folks. Additionally school systems, like the one I worked at, have many policies that make it tougher for black, especially poor black, folks.

Most of the things you describe here as remaining systemic issues are in the political/legal realm. I'm curious why you are so taken up with these political/legal issues if there is little you can do about it because of your 2 Kingdom stance? If that is where the real issues are and that is where your focus is, why not go all in?

On the other hand, since your 2 Kingdom stance doesn't allow you to get involved in the "solutions" in that realm why not focus a lot more energy on areas where the 2 Kingdom stance allows us to be involved, such as promoting biblical marriage before sex and the need for fathers in the home. From research people like Elder have done, it seems pretty clear to me that white people were responsible for implementing some of the programs that seem to have very negatively impacted the black community in these areas the Bible speaks to. Nothing hinders 2 Kingdom adherents from getting involved in mentoring young black men/women into a more biblical view of life in these areas. Think about the far reaching impact it could have if those of us who really care about the black community would get involved in just one young man/woman's life and help steer them out of a way of life white people were responsible for introducing them to back in the 60s.

[joshuabgood]

Gary, my primary objective is too acknowledge what the black community tells us they experience. And to acknowledge that white culture is the culture that is dominant in our society. That doesn't necessarily make it wrong, but it simply is. And to acknowledge that while de jure racism has ceased, the bleeding doesn't stop as soon as you pull the knife out after a person is stabbed on the back.

I feel like there is a place for us to speak truth to power without needing get politically involved or form a legal team. John the Baptist challenged Herod but he didn't say Herod should abdicate. And he didn't get involved politically. I think as followers of Jesus we can acknowledge and speak truth to power and work for reconciliation without needing to engage a legal team. Or get involved politically. I mentioned on the video as well as in writing what I thought would be some appropriate next steps. The CT mag yesterday in an article by Dalrymple, the editor I think, called the church to address historic wrongs in some ways.

And lastly yes, we invite folks into the Kingdom of God. I would also add that I have been mentored by multiple men of color. I needed mentoring from their community. One in particular actually worked for me as an AP, Dr. Shawn Brown and I learned so much from him. He was a Godsend and remains a close brother from Brownsville streets of NYC. He personally helped my wife and I through a very difficult time. (I'll share the story sometime of how God brought him to me and me to him). So I see us as whites being able to learn alot from the black communities also. Learning is a two way street. (Hence my earlier harping on the learning stance). Pastor Daniel Pollard had also been a mentor to me when I was in the small group with him for years. I have been also been blest by the christian maturity and intelligence and insight of Brother Matt Allert. And many more....sisters as well.

Hopefully that further clarifies my position.

[Robert]

Thanks for writing that. I understand better your position. Yes I agree. What could be referred to as direct de jure racism, had been ended in the 60s. I think there remain de facto systemic issues...along with policies, and collective actions, that, while not explicitly race based legislation, disproportionately negatively impact the black community. The legal system provides an example as well as the targeting of black communities by the white liberal abortion folks. Additionally school systems, like the one I worked at, have many policies that make it tougher for black, especially poor black, folks.

I really have little to disagree with your statements here. I do think we are pretty close.

The difference is I, personally, do not feel guilty, but admit that culture is guilty for some, not all, of their feelings and issues. They are also responsible for some of their culture and issues. I say they, as in inner city culture, not a race. Because I attach it to culture and not a color, I include multiracial people into this category. I also see it worldwide. Many large cities struggle with the generational poverty of inner city life. Because it happens world wide, I do not see it as racial, but it is systemic to inner city life. In the US and Canada, it may not be easy to leave the inner city, but it can be done. Many have done it when they took responsibility and quit looking for the easy way. Hard work and education really does make a difference. No, it is not fair that they were born in it and have to work harder to get out, but neither is it my fault. I have no one to kneel to besides God.

In the US, Democrats have a lock on the inner cities. I see a desire to keep the inner city locked down because it is a very solid voting block for them. While inner cities do require more government than rural, what has been done int he US inner cities, i feel, has been very destructive and manipulative to the inner city residents. It will take time and patience, but dismantling the nanny state of inner city life would help a lot. Giving parent school choice would help a lot too. I do vote so I can use my voice and vote to promote these things. You do not, so you will have to figure out how to help in your way.

I watched two more uploaded videos of Police stopping young black men last night. I also saw one of a white man they treated about the same. All three were poor examples of Police work. The challenge is we did not see videos of the hundreds that were good work and people were treated well. I agree reform needs to be done, but I will not be swayed by a few videos when statistics show that 99% of stops are handled well.

[Wade]

Gary, my primary objective is too acknowledge what the black community tells us they experience. And to acknowledge that white culture is the culture that is dominant in our society. That doesn't necessarily make it wrong, but it simply is. And to acknowledge that while de jure racism has ceased, the bleeding doesn't stop as soon as you pull the knife out after a person is stabbed on the back.

I feel like there is a place for us to speak truth to power without needing get politically involved or form a legal team. John the Baptist challenged Herod but he didn't say Herod should abdicate. And he didn't get involved politically. I think as followers of Jesus we can acknowledge and speak truth to power and work for reconciliation without needing to engage a legal team. Or get involved politically. I mentioned on the video as well as in writing what I thought would be some appropriate next steps. The CT mag yesterday in an article by Dalrymple, the editor I think, called the church to address historic wrongs in some ways.

And lastly yes, we invite folks into the Kingdom of God. I would also add that I have been mentored by multiple men of color. I needed mentoring from their community. One in particular actually worked for me as an AP, Dr. Shawn Brown and I learned so much from him. He was a Godsend and remains a close brother from Brownsville streets of NYC. He personally helped my wife and I through a very difficult time. (I'll share the story sometime of how God brought him to me and me to him). So I see us as whites being able to learn alot from the black communities also. Learning is a two way street. (Hence my earlier harping on the learning stance). Pastor Daniel Pollard had also been a mentor to me when I was in the small group with him for years. I have been also been blest by the christian maturity and intelligence and insight of Brother Matt Allert. And many more....sisters as well.

Hopefully that further clarifies my position.

If Canada could be an example for you - the government here has taken a very strong stance towards helping the natives Indians. So they don't pay taxes and they get into thing like college for free, they are fully covered by medical when they retire, they can hunt whenever they want, and their are benefits for companies that hire minority people.
Now think about - if I have to pay full price to go to college while another person of another origin gets in free - that is racism. If I apply and interview for a job and am more qualified because of the college education I paid for but the company hires someone less qualified because they are a person of minority - that is racism.
The government isn't Christian - they don't get it - so your demands for them to change will likely just have the effect again of racism from them but it will just in a different form because you can't change their root problem without Christ!

[Robert]

https://www.dailywire.com/news/erickson ... otten-ones

A man emailed me last week, and his email cut me to the core. He said he was really angry about the Ahmaud Arbery and George Floyd deaths, but not for the reason the rest of us are. He, a black, middle-class man, lives with his wife and children on the edge of a crumbling neighborhood. They are saving to move.

He is angry because white people are suddenly realizing what he has always known, but white people are still refusing to look at the rest of the problem. White liberals who are suddenly railing about the police unions protecting police are unconcerned about teachers unions protecting teachers. His children are academically successful in a public school. He acknowledges teachers can only do so much when kids are coming in from broken families and were up all night listening to gunshots. But he also knows from his community how many of the kids could do better with better teachers.

My correspondent is a black father working in the middle class. His children are more academically successful than their peers from broken homes. That is not a coincidence. If we want to rebuild a more just world, we need to strengthen the two-parent nuclear household, not disrupt it. It is already disrupted and needs repair.

We need to remember the poor kids who cannot escape the teachers unions, which they’ll encounter more regularly than representatives of police unions. We need to remember the victims of violence not seen on camera. We have a lot to do, but that work is best done in our communities, not abstractly in Washington.

Really good article. Well worth reading.