Of Fake News and Conspiracy Theories

Things that are not part of politics happening presently and how we approach or address it as Anabaptists.
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Szdfan

Re: Of Fake News and Conspiracy Theories

Post by Szdfan »

Robert wrote:
Szdfan wrote:I think conspiracy theory thinking enable abuses of power.
What happens when a theory becomes fact?
Then it’s no longer a conspiracy theory. Part of defines a conspiracy theory is that it relies more on faith instead of fact. Dots are connected with insufficient or no evidence. Relationships between disparate things are assumed without evidence that they are actually connected.

If there’s adequate evidence to support these connected dots, it’s not a conspiracy theory.

Do you have examples of conspiracy theories that turned into fact?
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Valerie

Re: Of Fake News and Conspiracy Theories

Post by Valerie »

Szdfan wrote:
Robert wrote:
Szdfan wrote:I think conspiracy theory thinking enable abuses of power.
What happens when a theory becomes fact?
Then it’s no longer a conspiracy theory. Part of defines a conspiracy theory is that it relies more on faith instead of fact. Dots are connected with insufficient or no evidence. Relationships between disparate things are assumed without evidence that they are actually connected.

If there’s adequate evidence to support these connected dots, it’s not a conspiracy theory.

Do you have examples of conspiracy theories that turned into fact?
I truly wonder how Hitler achieved his goal. Was anyone warning? We're they seen as conspiracy theorists? What about the spread of communism. Russia- was anyone connecting dots? Trying to warn? How wiill the AntiChrist eventually rise to his power? If the Church is going through the Great Tribulation like the Orthodox Church had always taught, will Christians be inclined to sense but way of the Holy Spirit what is happening & just put up ,& shut up, or will it be our Christian duty to use what we see happening as an open door to share our faith?
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ken_sylvania

Re: Of Fake News and Conspiracy Theories

Post by ken_sylvania »

Szdfan wrote:
Robert wrote:
Szdfan wrote:I think conspiracy theory thinking enable abuses of power.
What happens when a theory becomes fact?
Then it’s no longer a conspiracy theory. Part of defines a conspiracy theory is that it relies more on faith instead of fact. Dots are connected with insufficient or no evidence. Relationships between disparate things are assumed without evidence that they are actually connected.

If there’s adequate evidence to support these connected dots, it’s not a conspiracy theory.

Do you have examples of conspiracy theories that turned into fact?
There was a conspiracy theory that said the US Government lied about the Gulf of Tonkin incident to justify attacks on North Vietnam.
There was a conspiracy theory that said the US Government was complicit in selling guns that went across the border to gangs in Mexico.
There was a conspiracy theory that said the US Government was secretly selling weapons to Iran.
How many more do you want?
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Ken
Posts: 18074
Joined: Thu Jun 13, 2019 12:02 am
Location: Washington State
Affiliation: former MCUSA

Re: Of Fake News and Conspiracy Theories

Post by Ken »

ken_sylvania wrote:
Szdfan wrote:
Robert wrote:
What happens when a theory becomes fact?
Then it’s no longer a conspiracy theory. Part of defines a conspiracy theory is that it relies more on faith instead of fact. Dots are connected with insufficient or no evidence. Relationships between disparate things are assumed without evidence that they are actually connected.

If there’s adequate evidence to support these connected dots, it’s not a conspiracy theory.

Do you have examples of conspiracy theories that turned into fact?
There was a conspiracy theory that said the US Government lied about the Gulf of Tonkin incident to justify attacks on North Vietnam.
There was a conspiracy theory that said the US Government was complicit in selling guns that went across the border to gangs in Mexico.
There was a conspiracy theory that said the US Government was secretly selling weapons to Iran.
How many more do you want?
There was a conspiracy that Iraq had weapons of mass destruction and was going to threaten the world which turned out to be false.

There was a conspiracy theory that Russia was meddling in the US elections that turned out to be true.
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A fool can throw out more questions than a wise man can answer. -RZehr
ohio jones

Re: Of Fake News and Conspiracy Theories

Post by ohio jones »

Valerie wrote:I truly wonder how Hitler achieved his goal. Was anyone warning? We're they seen as conspiracy theorists? What about the spread of communism. Russia- was anyone connecting dots? Trying to warn? How wiill the AntiChrist eventually rise to his power? If the Church is going through the Great Tribulation like the Orthodox Church had always taught, will Christians be inclined to sense but way of the Holy Spirit what is happening & just put up ,& shut up, or will it be our Christian duty to use what we see happening as an open door to share our faith?
Is sharing our faith supposed to be about the good news of the kingdom of God, or about the bad news of the kingdoms of this world?
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Valerie

Re: Of Fake News and Conspiracy Theories

Post by Valerie »

ohio jones wrote:
Valerie wrote:I truly wonder how Hitler achieved his goal. Was anyone warning? We're they seen as conspiracy theorists? What about the spread of communism. Russia- was anyone connecting dots? Trying to warn? How wiill the AntiChrist eventually rise to his power? If the Church is going through the Great Tribulation like the Orthodox Church had always taught, will Christians be inclined to sense but way of the Holy Spirit what is happening & just put up ,& shut up, or will it be our Christian duty to use what we see happening as an open door to share our faith?
Is sharing our faith supposed to be about the good news of the kingdom of God, or about the bad news of the kingdoms of this world?
Well Jesus did both. So did the prophets. God wanted us to be aware apparently or the Bible would be really short.
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barnhart
Posts: 3579
Joined: Tue Jul 23, 2019 9:59 pm
Location: Brooklyn
Affiliation: Mennonite

Re: Of Fake News and Conspiracy Theories

Post by barnhart »

Valerie wrote:
ohio jones wrote:
Valerie wrote:I truly wonder how Hitler achieved his goal. Was anyone warning? We're they seen as conspiracy theorists? What about the spread of communism. Russia- was anyone connecting dots? Trying to warn? How wiill the AntiChrist eventually rise to his power? If the Church is going through the Great Tribulation like the Orthodox Church had always taught, will Christians be inclined to sense but way of the Holy Spirit what is happening & just put up ,& shut up, or will it be our Christian duty to use what we see happening as an open door to share our faith?
Is sharing our faith supposed to be about the good news of the kingdom of God, or about the bad news of the kingdoms of this world?
Well Jesus did both. So did the prophets. God wanted us to be aware apparently or the Bible would be really short.
Jesus also said "Let not your heart be troubled, you believe in God, believe also in me" and "I will never leave you nor forsake you" and "In this world you will have trouble, but take heart, I have overcome the world" and "Peace I leave with you; my peace I give you. I do not give to you as the world gives. Do not let your hearts be troubled and do not be afraid."

My mother had a very good response to conspiracy theorists and the deep state take over. "So what if they do?" I have taken to telling people I'm not so worried about the deep state because I believe in the deep deep state.
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Valerie

Re: Of Fake News and Conspiracy Theories

Post by Valerie »

barnhart wrote:
Valerie wrote:
ohio jones wrote: Is sharing our faith supposed to be about the good news of the kingdom of God, or about the bad news of the kingdoms of this world?
Well Jesus did both. So did the prophets. God wanted us to be aware apparently or the Bible would be really short.
Jesus also said "Let not your heart be troubled, you believe in God, believe also in me" and "I will never leave you nor forsake you" and "In this world you will have trouble, but take heart, I have overcome the world" and "Peace I leave with you; my peace I give you. I do not give to you as the world gives. Do not let your hearts be troubled and do not be afraid."

My mother had a very good response to conspiracy theorists and the deep state take over. "So what if they do?" I have taken to telling people I'm not so worried about the deep state because I believe in the deep deep state.
I really love thisvresponse. It is why I started that topic of Denny Kenaston & conspiracy theories. That was his response as well when his brethren asked "what are we going to do about it?" . I get really torn about it and need to pray more about this. I DO believe God can use some of this to open eyes, because Jesus and the prophets made our future, including what was to happen in earthly kingdoms for just an example, Daniel and Revelations- I mean Revelation is the only Book that specifically says "Blessed is He who reads and those who hear the words of this prophecy, and keep those things in it; for the time is near." ( Revelation 1:3). To believe that we should keep these kinds of prophesies hidden from those who are wondering what in the 'world' is going on, may miss the fact that God has used prophecy throughout the Bible to open eyes, & confirm His word. There is (it seems to me) a place for it, but yes I too agree also the emphasis should be as you shared as your dear mother shared.
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Szdfan

Re: Of Fake News and Conspiracy Theories

Post by Szdfan »

ken_sylvania wrote:
Szdfan wrote:
Robert wrote:
What happens when a theory becomes fact?
Then it’s no longer a conspiracy theory. Part of defines a conspiracy theory is that it relies more on faith instead of fact. Dots are connected with insufficient or no evidence. Relationships between disparate things are assumed without evidence that they are actually connected.

If there’s adequate evidence to support these connected dots, it’s not a conspiracy theory.

Do you have examples of conspiracy theories that turned into fact?
There was a conspiracy theory that said the US Government lied about the Gulf of Tonkin incident to justify attacks on North Vietnam.
There was a conspiracy theory that said the US Government was complicit in selling guns that went across the border to gangs in Mexico.
There was a conspiracy theory that said the US Government was secretly selling weapons to Iran.
How many more do you want?
Conspiracies exist. Conspiracies are not the same thing as a conspiracy theory.

The Nazi plan to burn down the Reichstag and blame the Communists was a conspiracy. The belief that Hitler faked his suicide and fled to Argentina or a secret German base in Antarctica is conspiracy theory.

A conspiracy:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conspiracy?wprov=sfti1
A conspiracy, also known as a plot, is a secret plan or agreement between persons (called conspirers or conspirators) for an unlawful or harmful purpose, such as murder or treason, especially with political motivation, while keeping their agreement secret from the public or from other people affected by it.
A conspiracy theory:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conspirac ... prov=sfti1
A conspiracy theory is an explanation for an event or situation that invokes a conspiracy by sinister and powerful groups, often political in motivation, when other explanations are more probable.
Some differences between conspiracies and conspiracy theories:

1) Conspiracies tend to be limited in scope. Each conspiracy you mentioned involved specific plots and consequences. Conspiracy theories tend to be overarching, connecting lots of disparate events into a unified narrative to argue that the movement of history is manipulated by shadowy forces — i.e. George Soros, the Illuminati, the Deep State, subterranean lizard people, etc.)
Political scientist Michael Barkun has described conspiracy theories as relying on the view that the universe is governed by design, and embody three principles: nothing happens by accident, nothing is as it seems, and everything is connected.
2) Conspiracies are usually unmasked with traditional methods — journalism, whistleblowers, leaked documents, investigations, etc. Conspiracy theories have either insufficient evidence or no evidence at all. When we talk about actual conspiracies, we’re talking about facts and evidence. When we talk about conspiracy theories, we’re talking about belief.
Another common feature is that conspiracy theories evolve to incorporate whatever evidence exists against them, so that they become, as Barkun writes, a closed system that is unfalsifiable, and therefore "a matter of faith rather than proof".
So when YouTube pulls “Plandemic,” advocates see it as proof that it’s true because “somebody has something to hide” rather than it’s a bunch of malarkey and misinformation in the midst of a global pandemic.

I think conspiracy theories are a form of contemporary folklore.
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Dan Z

Re: Of Fake News and Conspiracy Theories

Post by Dan Z »

barnhart wrote: My mother had a very good response to conspiracy theorists and the deep state take over. "So what if they do?" I have taken to telling people I'm not so worried about the deep state because I believe in the deep deep state.
Reminds me of Aslan evoking the "even deeper magic" (that overcomes death and forgives iniquities)m that the Queen didn't know about.

In reality, any state (deep or non-deep) is vying for our primary allegiance - space reserved for Christ and His Kingdom. When we let political narratives tell us who our enemies are and who our friends are, we've begun to loose the battle already.
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