Randal Martin on the CAM/Jeriah Debacle

[steve-in-kville]

And I probably sounded grumpier online than I would have if we were having this conversation face to face.

I couldn't even imagine...

[temporal1]

Ernie is it possible that your desire to see the good in people has caused your vision to be clouded when it comes to CAM?

I don't think so.
I've spoken very plainly to CAM crisis team members and board members about what I think should have been done differently and what I think should happen in the future. I've gone into detail about that on other threads.

What I am not willing to do is lump everyone together and throw people under the bus who have done nothing wrong.

You said in a comment to Kris that those managing the crisis at CAM have said and would continue to say that there are a number of things they should have done differently. Who exactly is managing the crisis at CAM? If those in charge are the ones who have not done the right thing when it comes to the skeletons in THEIR closets then why should they be trusted to do the right thing when it comes to dealing with the skeletons of others?

The two senior leaders at CAM who were responsible for what happened in Haiti were relieved of their jobs.

The three man team that was appointed to manage the crisis were people who had no knowledge of the matters that precipitated the crisis.

i believe Ernie.
i believe this represents movement away from long history. (the marathon.)
i believe it’s possible more is yet to come.

i don’t believe more will be revealed if no one pursues it. the majority do not pursue.

i know some accuse wrongly.
i know some are wrongly accused.

This is the fallen world we occupy. Jesus knew it would not be easy. He promised The Advocate.

John 14:16

15If you love Me, you will keep My commandments.

16And I will ask the Father, and He will give you another Advocate to be with you forever— 17the Spirit of truth.

The world cannot receive Him, because it neither sees Him nor knows Him.
But you do know Him, for He abides with you and will be in you.…

[Signtist]

And I probably sounded grumpier online than I would have if we were having this conversation face to face.

I couldn't even imagine...

On the other hand, perhaps I sound grumpy in real life as well.

[temporal1]

And I probably sounded grumpier online than I would have if we were having this conversation face to face.

I couldn't even imagine...

i feel like .. i’ve become The Queen of Grumpiness. and i’m not happy about it.
i hope it’s mostly about being isolated from my family for so long .. and i hope for not much longer.
almost 2 years now. i think if i see them again, i might just fall down in tears.

Signtist, you are nothing if not a special blessing.

[RZehr]

If its anything like my experiences, leadership will (try to) tear you down to find your source so they can patch a leak.

That’s one way to project on leaders motives.
Alternatively, they need as any competent investigator needs, a primary witness. No one really wants a system where hearsay is considered proof. No one wants a system where anyone can make an accusation and a guilty judgment is pronounced based on that, without a trial or proper investigation.

I don’t have your experiences. But to withhold your source is like calling the fire department and then blockading the road. And then posting about how the fire department isn’t willing to put out a fire. That they couldn’t reach.

[steve-in-kville]

If its anything like my experiences, leadership will (try to) tear you down to find your source so they can patch a leak.

That’s one way to project on leaders motives.
Alternatively, they need as any competent investigator needs, a primary witness. No one really wants a system where hearsay is considered proof. No one wants a system where anyone can make an accusation and a guilty judgment is pronounced based on that, without a trial or proper investigation.

I don’t have your experiences. But to withhold your source is like calling the fire department and then blockading the road. And then posting about how the fire department isn’t willing to put out a fire. That they couldn’t reach.

I respectfully disagree. If I know about a misdeed right from the source, and I approach leadership, and the first thing out of their mouth is "who told you that??!!" Yep, its true and they know it.

You'll learn in a hurry never to disclose a valuable source. That can burn you both ways.

I'm not just referencing church leadership but also in a corporate environment as well.

[steve-in-kville]

I don’t have your experiences. But to withhold your source is like calling the fire department and then blockading the road. And then posting about how the fire department isn’t willing to put out a fire. That they couldn’t reach.

Calling the fire department, giving the address of the fire, but declining to give your own name and number... that's a better comparison.

[silentreader]

I don’t have your experiences. But to withhold your source is like calling the fire department and then blockading the road. And then posting about how the fire department isn’t willing to put out a fire. That they couldn’t reach.

Calling the fire department, giving the address of the fire, but declining to give your own name and number... that's a better comparison.

We have the name and address of the caller, we have the name of the municipality, but we don't have the street address or the exact nature of the problem.

[steve-in-kville]

I think we're all on the same page here... just coming at it from different angles.

[RZehr]

To be clear, I was conversing on this point absent of the CAM context. Just broadly speaking, how much easier to investigate things when witnesses cooperate.

Take CAM for example now. Aurien says there is some problems there. But if she isn’t going to cooperate with anyone (I don’t mean in public on a forum. I mean if she doesn’t cooperate with a legitimate investigation.) what good is it? Or, if Aurien cooperates, and someone is investigating CAM and the leaders just stall or don’t divulge what others told them, who told them, etc.?

It is important that if truth be found, people cooperate. On both sides. And yes, sometime there is a personal cost of cooperation, but what’s the alternative?