Soloist wrote: ↑Mon Nov 29, 2021 10:44 pm
The CMS has mandated flu vaccines before being tied to the federal money. I doubt this will stand.
The only way I see a state breaking with this mandate is to fund the Medicaid and Medicare themselves, otherwise the government can withhold the funding. Those who pay the bills, control the use.
Not remotely conceivable that would ever happen. Medicare is a Federal program and retirees in a state like say...Texas...are absolutely NOT going to want a crummy penny-pinching Texas version of Medicare rather than the real thing. But more importantly, it isn't the direct money spent on the program that is at issue. It is hospitals, nursing homes, and clinics who take Medicare dollars from patients.
All the hospitals in Texas would have to agree to stop seeing Medicare patients, or agree not to take any money when they do see Medicare patients and the state would have to step in and compensate them for the tens of billions of dollars that would represent. That will absolutely not ever happen. A quick bit of googling tells me that Medicare spends $28.5 BILLION dollars in Texas alone. Medicaid is another $40 BILLION per year. You think Texans are going to take on that burden just over vaccine mandates? Or any other state for that matter?
Ken,
Would you support people like me “opting out” of Medicare? I’d like my $480/month back. I don’t care to pay $480/month to Medicare and then have my friends and family threatened with losing their jobs if they don’t get vaccinated.
I suspect if we were offered a choice, a lot of people would completely opt out of Medicare.
Soloist wrote: ↑Mon Nov 29, 2021 10:44 pm
The CMS has mandated flu vaccines before being tied to the federal money. I doubt this will stand.
The only way I see a state breaking with this mandate is to fund the Medicaid and Medicare themselves, otherwise the government can withhold the funding. Those who pay the bills, control the use.
Not remotely conceivable that would ever happen. Medicare is a Federal program and retirees in a state like say...Texas...are absolutely NOT going to want a crummy penny-pinching Texas version of Medicare rather than the real thing. But more importantly, it isn't the direct money spent on the program that is at issue. It is hospitals, nursing homes, and clinics who take Medicare dollars from patients.
All the hospitals in Texas would have to agree to stop seeing Medicare patients, or agree not to take any money when they do see Medicare patients and the state would have to step in and compensate them for the tens of billions of dollars that would represent. That will absolutely not ever happen. A quick bit of googling tells me that Medicare spends $28.5 BILLION dollars in Texas alone. Medicaid is another $40 BILLION per year. You think Texans are going to take on that burden just over vaccine mandates? Or any other state for that matter?
Ken,
Would you support people like me “opting out” of Medicare? I’d like my $480/month back. I don’t care to pay $480/month to Medicare and then have my friends and family threatened with losing their jobs if they don’t get vaccinated.
I suspect if we were offered a choice, a lot of people would completely opt out of Medicare.
Not remotely conceivable that would ever happen. Medicare is a Federal program and retirees in a state like say...Texas...are absolutely NOT going to want a crummy penny-pinching Texas version of Medicare rather than the real thing. But more importantly, it isn't the direct money spent on the program that is at issue. It is hospitals, nursing homes, and clinics who take Medicare dollars from patients.
All the hospitals in Texas would have to agree to stop seeing Medicare patients, or agree not to take any money when they do see Medicare patients and the state would have to step in and compensate them for the tens of billions of dollars that would represent. That will absolutely not ever happen. A quick bit of googling tells me that Medicare spends $28.5 BILLION dollars in Texas alone. Medicaid is another $40 BILLION per year. You think Texans are going to take on that burden just over vaccine mandates? Or any other state for that matter?
Ken,
Would you support people like me “opting out” of Medicare? I’d like my $480/month back. I don’t care to pay $480/month to Medicare and then have my friends and family threatened with losing their jobs if they don’t get vaccinated.
I suspect if we were offered a choice, a lot of people would completely opt out of Medicare.
Would you support people like me “opting out” of Medicare? I’d like my $480/month back. I don’t care to pay $480/month to Medicare and then have my friends and family threatened with losing their jobs if they don’t get vaccinated.
I suspect if we were offered a choice, a lot of people would completely opt out of Medicare.
Well no, you can get an exemption from both SS and Medicare if you are a member of a religious group that provides alternatives to Social Security and Medicare like the Amish and Old Order Mennonites. You just can’t do it based only on opposition to vaccine mandates.
Which I think is appropriate. If you are going to opt out of social security and Medicare then you definitely need some sort of organized backup program to replace both programs. Otherwise you are liable to wind up in your elder years sick and destitute and become a ward of the state anyway.
0 x
A fool can throw out more questions than a wise man can answer. -RZehr
Not remotely conceivable that would ever happen. Medicare is a Federal program and retirees in a state like say...Texas...are absolutely NOT going to want a crummy penny-pinching Texas version of Medicare rather than the real thing. But more importantly, it isn't the direct money spent on the program that is at issue. It is hospitals, nursing homes, and clinics who take Medicare dollars from patients.
All the hospitals in Texas would have to agree to stop seeing Medicare patients, or agree not to take any money when they do see Medicare patients and the state would have to step in and compensate them for the tens of billions of dollars that would represent. That will absolutely not ever happen. A quick bit of googling tells me that Medicare spends $28.5 BILLION dollars in Texas alone. Medicaid is another $40 BILLION per year. You think Texans are going to take on that burden just over vaccine mandates? Or any other state for that matter?
Ken,
Would you support people like me “opting out” of Medicare? I’d like my $480/month back. I don’t care to pay $480/month to Medicare and then have my friends and family threatened with losing their jobs if they don’t get vaccinated.
I suspect if we were offered a choice, a lot of people would completely opt out of Medicare.
Wrong. You can’t just “opt out” of Medicare. My entire church would have to do so too.
I’m asking if YOU think I should, and if you think that would be a good thing. You seem to think it’s a great idea to exclude me from Medicare services and hospitals, so I’m asking how you would feel about me and anyone else who wants to withdrawing our financial support.
Well no, you can get an exemption from both SS and Medicare if you are a member of a religious group that provides alternatives to Social Security and Medicare like the Amish and Old Order Mennonites. You just can’t do it based only on opposition to vaccine mandates.
Which I think is appropriate. If you are going to opt out of social security and Medicare then you definitely need some sort of organized backup program to replace both programs. Otherwise you are liable to wind up in your elder years sick and destitute and become a ward of the state anyway.
If you employed by a corporation, you cannot opt out of paying SS and Medicare.
Would you support people like me “opting out” of Medicare? I’d like my $480/month back. I don’t care to pay $480/month to Medicare and then have my friends and family threatened with losing their jobs if they don’t get vaccinated.
I suspect if we were offered a choice, a lot of people would completely opt out of Medicare.
Wrong. You can’t just “opt out” of Medicare. My entire church would have to do so too.
I’m asking if YOU think I should, and if you think that would be a good thing. You seem to think it’s a great idea to exclude me from Medicare services and hospitals, so I’m asking how you would feel about me and anyone else who wants to withdrawing our financial support.
I support the law exactly as it is written. I think any group who wants to opt out of Medicare or Social Security should have longstanding successful alternative programs in place. If you opt out of Medicare now when you are young, and when you are 80 you need expensive bypass surgery, chemotherapy, or expensive long-term care for Alzheimer’s who is going to pay for that? Do you have a plan in place to have a million or more dollars saved into your own personal HSA to cover all your medical expenses when you are elderly? Are you part of a church that is willing to take on that ENTIRE burden because you chose to exempt yourself from Medicare back when you were young?
Personally I think you should stay in the Medicare program like everyone else so that you are protected in your old age. I’m not trying to kick you out of Medicare. I think it is a good program. And if you choose to do otherwise, you had better have a seriously well thought-out alternative plan to cover your medical expenses in old age. No private insurance company is going to write a health insurance policy for someone in their 80s. So you better have some other group like a church behind you.
0 x
A fool can throw out more questions than a wise man can answer. -RZehr
Well no, you can get an exemption from both SS and Medicare if you are a member of a religious group that provides alternatives to Social Security and Medicare like the Amish and Old Order Mennonites. You just can’t do it based only on opposition to vaccine mandates.
Which I think is appropriate. If you are going to opt out of social security and Medicare then you definitely need some sort of organized backup program to replace both programs. Otherwise you are liable to wind up in your elder years sick and destitute and become a ward of the state anyway.
If you employed by a corporation, you cannot opt out of paying SS and Medicare.
That is apparently how the law was negotiated with the Amish and conservative Mennonites back when it was first established. I assume at the time that most if not all of them were self-employed farmers or ran their own small businesses of some sort and did not tend to work as wage employees of large corporations. Opting out of social security and Medicare is a lifetime religious commitment that requires a robust church group behind you to provide equivalent alternatives. It isn’t something that someone can just wing on their own.
0 x
A fool can throw out more questions than a wise man can answer. -RZehr
Well no, you can get an exemption from both SS and Medicare if you are a member of a religious group that provides alternatives to Social Security and Medicare like the Amish and Old Order Mennonites. You just can’t do it based only on opposition to vaccine mandates.
Which I think is appropriate. If you are going to opt out of social security and Medicare then you definitely need some sort of organized backup program to replace both programs. Otherwise you are liable to wind up in your elder years sick and destitute and become a ward of the state anyway.
If you employed by a corporation, you cannot opt out of paying SS and Medicare.
That is apparently how the law was negotiated with the Amish and conservative Mennonites back when it was first established. I assume at the time that most if not all of them were self-employed farmers or ran their own small businesses of some sort and did not tend to work as wage employees of large corporations. Opting out of social security and Medicare is a lifetime religious commitment that requires a robust church group behind you to provide equivalent alternatives. It isn’t something that someone can just wing on their own.
Humans relied with dignity on their families, church and small community structures for 1000s of years before social security. welfare and social safety nets are especially required as industrial life disrupts basic social structures that God designed in favor of profit and efficiency. Exchanging that natural order for state sponsored welfare was much like Israel asking for a king. It was a massive mistake, but can only be seen after the fact.
Procedurally, you're correct though. It has to be very difficult to opt out, otherwise most would. Our culture has very little future time preference, which is the main factor, but Social Security especially is a house of cards. Adjusting for inflation (real inflation, not CPI), I will never get the value back that I put into it.
If you employed by a corporation, you cannot opt out of paying SS and Medicare.
That is apparently how the law was negotiated with the Amish and conservative Mennonites back when it was first established. I assume at the time that most if not all of them were self-employed farmers or ran their own small businesses of some sort and did not tend to work as wage employees of large corporations. Opting out of social security and Medicare is a lifetime religious commitment that requires a robust church group behind you to provide equivalent alternatives. It isn’t something that someone can just wing on their own.
Humans relied with dignity on their families, church and small community structures for 1000s of years before social security. welfare and social safety nets are especially required as industrial life disrupts basic social structures that God designed in favor of profit and efficiency. Exchanging that natural order for state sponsored welfare was much like Israel asking for a king. It was a massive mistake, but can only be seen after the fact.
Procedurally, you're correct though. It has to be very difficult to opt out, otherwise most would. Our culture has very little future time preference, which is the main factor, but Social Security especially is a house of cards. Adjusting for inflation (real inflation, not CPI), I will never get the value back that I put into it.
You might well get back your investment if you live to be 100 or wind up disabled. The program is designed to be progressive so lower income individuals get back higher benefits than high income individuals relative to their contributions. So the likely hood that you get your “investment” back depends on two things. How long you live and how wealthy you are. Personally my wife and I don’t plan to rely on Social Security. We have our own personal savings. But it is a nice backstop to have should things go haywire. And if we have money left over that is just more we can contribute to charity and so forth.
As a society we have decided not to let our elderly die in poverty or from preventable medical issues because they are too poor to pay for it. The poverty rate among the elderly was about 50% when FDR signed the Social Security Act into law. It is now around 10%. That is largely the result of Social Security. I tend to think that is a good thing. The Golden Ages weren’t all that golden for many if not the majority.
0 x
A fool can throw out more questions than a wise man can answer. -RZehr