Who speaks for the black community?

[Neto]

It has become so 'normal' for a woman in certain sectors of society, both in categories of so-called race and of economic position, to be a single (often never married) mother, that it has become normal, basically expected. As long as it is completely acceptable to those in those categories, it will not stop. Boys grow up without fathers, and it's a big learning curve for them to know how to be an engaged father themselves, and to even think of the importance of it, bot for themselves, and for their children.

So your solution is...MORE disapproval? Make their lives harder than they already are?

It is not even remotely fair to respond like that. I think that from the part of my post that you omitted it is apparent that I was talking about changed attitudes of those caught in it, not anything at all to do with any outside attitude. If that wasn't clear, then please consider this as a refinement of that post.

[QuietlyListening]

This is worth reading. And as I read it I can't comprehend what our black brothers and sisters face.

https://www.thegospelcoalition.org/arti ... yd-and-me/

[joshuabgood]

EJI have themselves freed over a hundred black men wrongfully condemned on death row. And that is where the strongest evidence is needed. The Central Park five were wrongly condemned and had a full page ad taken out in the NY Times asking for these kids mind you, to be killed. Amadou Diallo was shot to tatters for getting ID when asked. Philando Castille was stopped 49 times by police and then shot when he complied with all orders and let the officer know he had a gun legally. Tamir Rice was shot in 2 seconds after the police pulled up because he was a kid only 14 years old playing with a BB gun. Walter Scott was shot in the back running away from police. Alton sterling....Breonna Taylor...Eric Garner...Sean Bell...George Floyd...its a long long list of those we know about. And a much longer list for those we dont know about. Black men have been warehoused in this country for a long time . Of course the impact is horrific on the black family. And it is long lasting. A Republican Senator Scot has been stopped many times by police for no reason. He stated it. Trevor Noah, stopped many times...a celebrity.

There is a reason everyone is getting behind prison reform and cops themselves are joining the protests and kneeling. And Goodell made his statement and so did Bush, Romney, and Obama and Carter.

One gorilla was killed in the zoo when a boy fell in and was threatened. White society went ballistic because gorilla was shot. The zoo admitted there were systemic problems. All for one gorilla. Black men get killed and....no systemic problems. HT Trevor Noah...

[Ken]

It has become so 'normal' for a woman in certain sectors of society, both in categories of so-called race and of economic position, to be a single (often never married) mother, that it has become normal, basically expected. As long as it is completely acceptable to those in those categories, it will not stop. Boys grow up without fathers, and it's a big learning curve for them to know how to be an engaged father themselves, and to even think of the importance of it, bot for themselves, and for their children.

So your solution is...MORE disapproval? Make their lives harder than they already are?

It is not even remotely fair to respond like that. I think that from the part of my post that you omitted it is clear that I was talking about changed attitudes of those caught in it, not anything at all to do with any outside attitude.

You are right. That was unfair of me.

But here we are a group of largely (or completely?) white people talking about the problem of marriage in the black community. Which is probably the one thing that is neither our place nor within our power to do anything about. When the things that we do have the ability and responsibility to change, like pervasive discrimination and inequity, are just so much more difficult and complicated to even address.

[Grace]

Busted up families has a generational impact. And imprisoning the black man is what our society has been doing the last 50 years. Check out 13 on Netflix. Or read the book Just Mercy, if you haven't already. There is a lot of work done documenting the incarceration of the black man.

This makes it sound like black men are incarcerated for no reason. The criminal justice system isn’t perfect, but is the high incarceration rate in black men due a willingness to engage in criminal activity? Is it because they are growing up in fatherless homes, and in environments that condone a belief that being a criminal is acceptable and almost admired? Are the young people even taught the concepts of self discipline, morality, restraint and personal responsibility? Is the disproportionate of black people in prison a problem with the criminal justice system or is it a social and cultural problem? And is it because they are committing more crimes?

[Robert]

Busted up families has a generational impact. And imprisoning the black man is what our society has been doing the last 50 years. Check out 13 on Netflix. Or read the book Just Mercy, if you haven't already. There is a lot of work done documenting the incarceration of the black man.

Have you watched all the videos I have posted and the articles I have referenced? If not, then stop suggesting I do more research with things that you think support your side. You act like I have never been exposed to any of it. I have. I expose myself to both sides. I am not sure you are.

Fatherlessness is causing much of the incarceration rates. It is causing much of the poverty and a lot of the gang attraction. Most of the black leaders admit the same. They may disagree with how to combat it, but they know it is a real issue.

[Ken]

Busted up families has a generational impact. And imprisoning the black man is what our society has been doing the last 50 years. Check out 13 on Netflix. Or read the book Just Mercy, if you haven't already. There is a lot of work done documenting the incarceration of the black man.

This makes it sound like black men are incarcerated for no reason. The criminal justice system isn’t perfect, but is the high incarceration rate in black men due a willingness to engage in criminal activity? Is it because they are growing up in fatherless homes, and in environments that condone a belief that being a criminal is acceptable and almost admired? Are the young people even taught the concepts of self discipline, morality, restraint and personal responsibility? Is the disproportionate of black people in prison a problem with the criminal justice system or is it a social and cultural problem? And is it because they are committing more crimes?

It's not an either/or question.

Yes you will find crime statistics that show black youth are more frequent offenders.

You will also find statistics that show black youth are far more likely to be arrested, convicted, and jailed for the same offense compared to white youth. And when they are jailed, are more likely to serve longer sentences.

So both are true at the same time.

[joshuabgood]

Busted up families has a generational impact. And imprisoning the black man is what our society has been doing the last 50 years. Check out 13 on Netflix. Or read the book Just Mercy, if you haven't already. There is a lot of work done documenting the incarceration of the black man.

This makes it sound like black men are incarcerated for no reason. The criminal justice system isn’t perfect, but is the high incarceration rate in black men due a willingness to engage in criminal activity? Is it because they are growing up in fatherless homes, and in environments that condone a belief that being a criminal is acceptable and almost admired? Are the young people even taught the concepts of self discipline, morality, restraint and personal responsibility? Is the disproportionate of black people in prison a problem with the criminal justice system or is it a social and cultural problem? And is it because they are committing more crimes?

Some good questions. Here is one more...in your opinion is the reason black men have been incarcerated en masse in this society because they generally make worse or more wicked choices with regard to leaving their families, to having sex before marriage, or committing crime, than do white people and thus black men deserve more prison time, more arrests and more convictions and maybe some day they will learn? And that white people on average just make better decisions with regard to staying in the family, waiting to have sex, taking the honest path, etc. Once a NYC teacher told me "it is just how they are. They have wild blood" That was a young white man btw. Another white guy used to always say BT by which he meant he made fun of "black time" This was in liberal NY.

As for me, I think there may be another more realistic less white-centric explanation, that actually makes a lot of sense when you understand the role of white supremacy in the history and birth of this country. What would be shocking is if there weren't racism...that is the natural human condition and whiteness is the dominant culture. It just is. In the kingdom of God we can play a role in confronting it and working for reconciliation.

[joshuabgood]

Busted up families has a generational impact. And imprisoning the black man is what our society has been doing the last 50 years. Check out 13 on Netflix. Or read the book Just Mercy, if you haven't already. There is a lot of work done documenting the incarceration of the black man.

Have you watched all the videos I have posted and the articles I have referenced? If not, then stop suggesting I do more research with things that you think support your side. You act like I have never been exposed to any of it. I have. I expose myself to both sides. I am not sure you are.

Fatherlessness is causing much of the incarceration rates. It is causing much of the poverty and a lot of the gang attraction. Most of the black leaders admit the same. They may disagree with how to combat it, but they know it is a real issue.

I am not sure I got them all, but thanks for introducing me to Larry Elder. I did watch those. I already wrote, to GaryK about the role of the black conservative in this discourse. It is a necessary role. Obama himself played it, as have Malcolm X, the Black Panthers, and B Washington. In our context we would be prudent to let black leaders and prophets challenge their communities where they need to be challenged.

[barnhart]

Busted up families has a generational impact. And imprisoning the black man is what our society has been doing the last 50 years. Check out 13 on Netflix. Or read the book Just Mercy, if you haven't already. There is a lot of work done documenting the incarceration of the black man.

This makes it sound like black men are incarcerated for no reason. The criminal justice system isn’t perfect, but is the high incarceration rate in black men due a willingness to engage in criminal activity? Is it because they are growing up in fatherless homes, and in environments that condone a belief that being a criminal is acceptable and almost admired? Are the young people even taught the concepts of self discipline, morality, restraint and personal responsibility? Is the disproportionate of black people in prison a problem with the criminal justice system or is it a social and cultural problem? And is it because they are committing more crimes?

Sometimes they are incarcerated for no reason. I have seen it happen to someone I know. He "fit the description," and sat in Jail for nine months because he couldn't make bail. Every couple of weeks immediately before his appointment to stand before the judge, the prosecutor would shove papers for him to sign off on a violent felony. Each time he refused and the prosecutor asked for more time to build the case and it was granted each time. Eventually his mother made bail with 3 days to spare so he appeared with a suit, haircut and a lawyer. The prosecutor moved to drop the case before his attorney said one word.

15 years ago or so, I remember hearing activists complain of "stop and frisk" but I paid it little mind. It seemed more like an annoyance than a civil rights violation, since if it happened to me, it would have been only an annoyance. The data is back after 12 years of Mayor Bloomberg, the number of black men stopped and frisked was greater than the actual number of black men in the city. This level of scrutiny and pressure tactics is the vacuum end of a system designed to catch up certain people and put them behind bars regardless of the actual crime stats.