Russia Invades Ukraine 2022

[Ernie]

I've been thinking about Jeremiah urging Judah to submit to Babylon. The Israelites did not do so and were brutally treated.

Making alliances with other nations in order to fight off another foe is as old as Biblical history. Many of the alliances in the OT ended up badly.

I don't know if God speaks through prophets to nations today, but the principle is still the same. If a country makes alliances with other nations to help you when you get in trouble, rather than agree to neutrality and paying tribute, you may end up with a lot of bloodshed.

Ukraine's resistance does not justify the atrocities that Putin is inflicting on innocent people. What is happening in Ukraine is very, very evil.
However there is an option that the Afghans took this summer that Ukraine is not taking, and that is to surrender to avoid bloodshed. And I doubt that Ukraine would have had near as bad of an outcome as what the Afghans will have under the Taliban.

Now it may be too late for Ukraine to get a positive outcome for their future if they surrender at this point, but had they chosen neutrality prior to February, and condemned shelling in eastern Ukraine months ago, I don't think they would be in their current state. They might have lost some land, but likely not much blood.

[Neto]

had they chosen neutrality prior to February, and condemned shelling in eastern Ukraine months ago, I don't think they would be in their current state. They might have lost some land, but likely not much blood.

... and their freedom, which they have lost now anyway.

[Dan Z]

had they chosen neutrality prior to February, and condemned shelling in eastern Ukraine months ago, I don't think they would be in their current state. They might have lost some land, but likely not much blood.

... and their freedom, which they have lost now anyway.

I don't disagree Neto - but I wonder what freedoms affecting daily life would the Ukrainians have given up had Russia occupied their country?

[Ernie]

had they chosen neutrality prior to February, and condemned shelling in eastern Ukraine months ago, I don't think they would be in their current state. They might have lost some land, but likely not much blood.

... and their freedom, which they have lost now anyway.

I don't disagree Neto - but I wonder what freedoms affecting daily life would the Ukrainians have given up had Russia occupied their country?

Would Russia have occupied the whole of Ukraine had Ukraine stayed neutral, or would Russia have been content to stay in eastern Ukraine until Putin was no longer in power?

[Neto]

had they chosen neutrality prior to February, and condemned shelling in eastern Ukraine months ago, I don't think they would be in their current state. They might have lost some land, but likely not much blood.

... and their freedom, which they have lost now anyway.

I don't disagree Neto - but I wonder what freedoms affecting daily life would the Ukrainians have given up had Russia occupied their country?

Obviously there is no way to know, but certainly political "self-determination". IF the reports coming out of Russia are true, then we can know that the freedom to protest any governmental action would be eliminated, because the suppression of anti-war parades all over Russia shows that Russia's own citizens do not have that privilege. If Russian citizens do not feel it is safe for them to remain in their own country, that is another sign that non-citizens would also not have personal freedoms.

[Falco Underhill]

... and their freedom, which they have lost now anyway.

I don't disagree Neto - but I wonder what freedoms affecting daily life would the Ukrainians have given up had Russia occupied their country?

Would Russia have occupied the whole of Ukraine had Ukraine stayed neutral, or would Russia have been content to stay in eastern Ukraine until Putin was no longer in power?

I continue to suspect this whole narrative that Putin intends to "occupy" Ukraine (as well as other countries) in a push to recreate the boundaries of Imperial Russia - is pure fantasy.

That narrative is intended to associate Putin with a far right group called the Russian Imperial Movement (RIM) (who DO want to recreate Imperial Russia) so that when these neoNazi movements do spill over across other borders, Russia can be blamed for it.

In fact, the CIA has been funding and training the Ukrainian Azov Battalion for this insurgency for some time now.

https://unlimitedhangout.com/2022/03/in ... -al-qaeda/

[temporal1]

I don't disagree Neto - but I wonder what freedoms affecting daily life would the Ukrainians have given up had Russia occupied their country?

Would Russia have occupied the whole of Ukraine had Ukraine stayed neutral, or would Russia have been content to stay in eastern Ukraine until Putin was no longer in power?

I continue to suspect this whole narrative that Putin intends to "occupy" Ukraine (as well as other countries) in a push to recreate the boundaries of Imperial Russia - is pure fantasy.

That narrative is intended to associate Putin with a far right group called the Russian Imperial Movement (RIM) (who DO want to recreate Imperial Russia) so that when these neoNazi movements do spill over across other borders, Russia can be blamed for it.

In fact, the CIA has been funding and training the Ukrainian Azov Battalion for this insurgency for some time now.

https://unlimitedhangout.com/2022/03/in ... -al-qaeda/

It’s foolish to ignore potential, or probable, underlying motivators with any of these men.
There is a lot at stake, they aren’t playing kindergarten games.

[Szdfan]

... and their freedom, which they have lost now anyway.

I don't disagree Neto - but I wonder what freedoms affecting daily life would the Ukrainians have given up had Russia occupied their country?

Obviously there is no way to know, but certainly political "self-determination". IF the reports coming out of Russia are true, then we can know that the freedom to protest any governmental action would be eliminated, because the suppression of anti-war parades all over Russia shows that Russia's own citizens do not have that privilege. If Russian citizens do not feel it is safe for them to remain in their own country, that is another sign that non-citizens would also not have personal freedoms.

As has been reported, a number of independent media sources in Russia have shut down because of a new law that would imprison and fine journalists for reporting things that the Kremlin disagreed with.

[nett]

had they chosen neutrality prior to February, and condemned shelling in eastern Ukraine months ago, I don't think they would be in their current state. They might have lost some land, but likely not much blood.

... and their freedom, which they have lost now anyway.

I don't disagree Neto - but I wonder what freedoms affecting daily life would the Ukrainians have given up had Russia occupied their country?

Ukrainian corruption is horrendous and well documented. Ukraine has also shown a penchant to be just as evil as Russia in actions like shutting off water to Crimea and shelling villages in the Donbass. I doubt life under Russia would really be any different at all, unless you are a well connected, Corrupt Ukrainian oligarch, but most of them have already fled.

[nett]

I continue to suspect this whole narrative that Putin intends to "occupy" Ukraine (as well as other countries) in a push to recreate the boundaries of Imperial Russia - is pure fantasy.

That narrative is intended to associate Putin with a far right group called the Russian Imperial Movement (RIM) (who DO want to recreate Imperial Russia) so that when these neoNazi movements do spill over across other borders, Russia can be blamed for it.

In fact, the CIA has been funding and training the Ukrainian Azov Battalion for this insurgency for some time now.

https://unlimitedhangout.com/2022/03/in ... -al-qaeda/

The complete media blackout of the nazi presence in the Ukrainian national guard has been quite disappointing. The Asov Battalion is really despicable, and Ukraine decided to integrate them into their military, instead of battling them. That tells us a lot about the Ukrainian authorities.