Illegal alien arrivals now greater than American births?

[HondurasKeiser]

What is the connection between the emergence of white supremacist language used to characterize immigration and President Trump bragging that his use of Nazi phrases makes him more popular.

White supremacist stuff and Trump have nothing to do with this topic.

Can you see why your use of the word ‘infestation’ rubbed so many here the wrong way? For me, it brings immediately to mind the way so many antisemites have talked about Jews.

[Ken]

….never misses a chance to blame Republicans.

Feel free to spin your alternative story about why immigration enforcement budgets are actually SHRINKING in real terms instead of growing. We are all ears.

Here is a place to start with an analysis of the subject by a former high-ranking official in the Department of Homeland Security during the Trump Administration. Where he was Trump's Deputy Assistant Secretary for Counterterrorism at DHS:

Will the debt ceiling deal mean less for homeland security? https://www.atlanticcouncil.org/blogs/n ... -security/

Are you all ears? In my experience you’re rather deaf to any actual criticism of Democrats.

I think the immigration crisis as we know it,is the result of a myriad mix of factors that are both international and domestic in origin. At the domestic level I think it’s a touch silly and manifestly partisan to lay the blame at the feet of one party. Both Democrats and Republicans have had more than their fair share to play in the immigration debacle.

I am perfectly happy and eager to criticize Democrats for their policy failures. One example is housing policy in this country which, for a variety of reasons, is more the fault of Democrats than Republicans. Especially in blue coastal cities where the crisis is most acute. I live around plenty of ostensibly liberal folks who turn egregiously bad when it comes to housing policy here in this area. Partly because they don’t want *those* people moving in and *ruining* our highly rated schools. But also because they are unable to comprehend the long-term effects of their intensely NIMBY attitudes.

And when it comes to immigration I’m also happy to lay the blame where it belongs as well. There are really at LEAST four different areas of policy when it comes to immigration, maybe more. But oft the top of my head I would say: (1) administration of existing laws such as immigration courts and deportations which is largely a funding issue, (2) infrastructure and border security which is also largely a funding issue, (3) statutory changes to deal with existing immigrants such as the Dream Act to legalize young people who grew up here, know no other home, and probably came as infants or small children, and (4) business regulations to reduce the ability to US businesss to use and rely on illegal immigrants such as mandatory e-verify and other provisions. Perhaps a 5th area of policy would be reform of the visa system to modernize our system of work visas that is currently broken.

Of those 5 areas of policy I would blame Republicans the most for funding shortfalls. That is due largely to how Republicans have chosen to approach Federal budgeting through one manufactured crisis after another: Debt ceiling crises, government shut-down crises, sequestration, across the board budget freezes, mandatory cuts, across the board hiring freezes, etc. etc. That approach to governance started in the 1990s with Newt Gingrich and as been Republican blueprint ever since. The entire endless House Speaker fiasco of last fall was largely over this issue. So those are policy areas #1 and #2 above. Funding increases for immigration judges and processing, and spending on infrastructure. Not just the wall, but electronic surveillance, whole-truck x-ray scanning technologies for ports of entry, etc. And that isn’t just about immigration, also about drugs, weapons, etc.

Regarding policy areas 3, 4, and 5. The legislative quagmire that has prevented any real new legislation on immigration since the Reagan Administration is largely the fault of both parties. There is some grand deal out there that would give Democrats a win on the Dream Act and Republicans a win on some areas like enforcement, business-friendly work visas, and so forth. But it is elusive because (1) Immigration has never been a top priority for Democrats above other issues like health care and the environment. And Republicans seem to have settled into a pattern of running on the immigration “crisis” rather than actually doing anything about it. But I would blame both parties for the lack of any new legislation to address the last 3 issues on my list. I don’t think either party really has the political courage to reach a common sense compromise on new immigration legislation.

And I would note that solving the funding issue is far easier than solving the legislative problems because budget bills only require 50 votes in the Senate while new legislation requires 60 votes to end debate and bring legislation to the floor for a vote. Otherwise you can have a minority filibuster.

Feel free to explain how I am wrong and it is really Democrats who are the prime obstacle to increased funding for immigration processing and not Republicans. I would be happy to stand corrected if you can make that case. I doubt that you can, but go for it. All you have to do is look to the Biden Administrations ACTUAL budget requests in this area and compare them to what Congress has actually chosen to fund.

[Ken]

Methinks Josh has been spending way too much time on white supremacist Telegram sites lately.

I have never spent time on any such thing, and am not really part of any Telegram chat groups at all, other than a few family chat type of ones.

Are you disputing the facts in the original chart I showed? It is obvious that the number of incoming migrants has now exceeded births (including both American births, births to illegal aliens, births to legal aliens, births to tourists, etc.)

Terms like “infestation” and “Great Replacement” are the stock and trade of right wing white supremacist discourse. And the term “Great Replacment” itself finds its roots in right wing white supremacist thought and basically stayed there until it was popularized by Tucker Carlson. Don’t believe me? Here’s Reuters discussing the subject: https://www.reuters.com/world/us/what-i ... 022-05-16/

If you aren’t picking these terms up on right wing fringes of the internet, where are you picking them up? What is your excuse?

And yes, I am disputing the chart you posted. I explained in great detail why it is garbage in my post upstream.

[Josh]

What is the connection between the emergence of white supremacist language used to characterize immigration and President Trump bragging that his use of Nazi phrases makes him more popular.

White supremacist stuff and Trump have nothing to do with this topic.

Can you see why your use of the word ‘infestation’ rubbed so many here the wrong way? For me, it brings immediately to mind the way so many antisemites have talked about Jews.

It has nothing to do with race, though. It’s a distraction topic.

If we had millions of Russians showing up in the same situation, displacing Americans (of whom 40% aren’t “white people”), I would feel exactly the same way. This isn’t about race at all. It’s about the constant churn and dislocation of people.

[Szdfan]

White supremacist stuff and Trump have nothing to do with this topic.

Can you see why your use of the word ‘infestation’ rubbed so many here the wrong way? For me, it brings immediately to mind the way so many antisemites have talked about Jews.

It has nothing to do with race, though. It’s a distraction topic.

If we had millions of Russians showing up in the same situation, displacing Americans (of whom 40% aren’t “white people”), I would feel exactly the same way. This isn’t about race at all. It’s about the constant churn and dislocation of people.

Then I don't understand why you are the exception and why you shouldn't go back to Australia. It doesn't matter that your family came here legally -- you're still a foreign element that has taken up resources, because everyone who lives somewhere takes up resources. It doesn't matter if you can buy yourself in, you're still replacing someone who was born here. All you're doing is drawing a line that includes you and excludes others.

[Bootstrap]

Can you see why your use of the word ‘infestation’ rubbed so many here the wrong way? For me, it brings immediately to mind the way so many antisemites have talked about Jews.

Here are three phrases that Nazi propaganda used extensively:

1. Vermin
2. Infestation
3. Poisoning our blood

They spoke extensively about Jewish elites who were secretly plotting against the German people. They used this kind of rhetoric to foster hate, justify violence, and recruit members. They used it to call for strong leaders, accountable to nobody, who would ignore legal niceties. They used this to justify looking the other way when this happened.

Not too different from what the Ku Klux Klan did.

[Bootstrap]

This isn’t about race at all. It’s about the constant churn and dislocation of people.

I think it's good to be concerned about churn and dislocation and wars.

For Christians, I think it's best to be focused on the things we do to help these people. That's one of the big reasons I have worked with refugees. Jesus showed compassion for Samaritans and Gentiles and other people who were down and out, even when society around him did not. We should follow his lead. When Paul reached out to Gentiles, he scandalized many Jews. We should follow his lead.

At the government level, I think there are policies that lead to greater stability and policies that cause churn. And of course, war and enmity cause churn. Authoritarian leaders who do not care about human rights and gin up hatred against people lead to churn. And that's another thing that concerns me about this kind of conspiracy theory - it often comes with a call for exactly the kind of leader who causes these kinds of problems.

Compassion is a very important principle in the Bible, in both the New Testament and the Old Testament.

[Bootstrap]

Methinks Josh has been spending way too much time on white supremacist Telegram sites lately.

I have never spent time on any such thing, and am not really part of any Telegram chat groups at all, other than a few family chat type of ones.

But I think it is helpful to look at where these memes are coming from. You often say that people are trying to manipulate us. I agree. People manufacture ideas that they want to use for their own purposes, then promote them in social media. These ideas have a history. The reason people dismiss them as conspiracy theories is that the same ideas have been promoted for a long time. They have a track record.

These particular memes used to be found mostly in white supremacist circles, and some were widely used by Nazis. Some politicians are mainstreaming them now. What do you think they have to gain by doing that? What do you think their purpose is?

[QuietlyListening]

I can't change how why or whatever about how many immigrants - legal or illegal - come to this country but I can choose to love any that come in my path. We have an ESL program that involves 4-5 maybe more churches and we not only help them learn English but for 5 minutes during the evening we present present God's word and each person gets to read the Bible passage chosen by the teacher for their class in their own language. Most of the evening is for teaching English but the Word is taught and read. We have also had opportunities to have different ones in our home, meet one on one- present the gospel etc.
So I don't concern myself with how many immigrants are in the US but rather how I can love them when and if the opportunity arises and remember if I do encounter someone who is not from the US and they have very broken English- at least they are learning a 2nd- maybe 3rd or 4th language and be patient and caring.

[Szdfan]

This isn’t about race at all. It’s about the constant churn and dislocation of people.

I think it's good to be concerned about churn and dislocation and wars.

Churn and dislocation are also one of the constants of life and while difficult, can also be a source of creativity and innovation. The US is a nation of immigrants. Most (all?) of us are here because our ancestors at one point were dislocated and immigrated to the US, sometimes at great cost. At least one of my ancestors died on the ship on the way here.

American culture is built on the mixing of cultures. Jazz comes from the mixing of French melodies and African rhythms. Country music is the mixing of Scots-Irish folk music with elements of the Blues and other influences. The banjo originates in West Africa. None of this would have happened without churn and dislocation.