Marxist BLM tries to force innocent diners to bow to them. For Marxists, it's always about control.

[Josh]

Christianity does have a sole claim on virtue. Anyone else with godly ideas is just repeating what first came from Christ.

If that's true, it would help if Christians could actually start acting virtuously.

“If that’s true”?

Szdfan, do you think Christ is the source of virtue, or not?

[Szdfan]

Christianity does have a sole claim on virtue. Anyone else with godly ideas is just repeating what first came from Christ.

If that's true, it would help if Christians could actually start acting virtuously.

“If that’s true”?

Szdfan, do you think Christ is the source of virtue, or not?

I think that Christ is the source of Christian virtue and discipleship and his teachings and commandments shape what it means to follow him.

I also think it’s possible for people who aren’t Christians or don’t know Christ to be virtuous people.
Plato and the Greeks argued and defined virtue over 400 years before Christ. You can see their influence all over Paul’s epistles. Historically, Christian ethics have also borrowed heavily from the Greeks.

It doesn’t make any logical sense to me to say that Plato’s virtues are just repeating what first came through Christ since he lived and died before Christ’s birth.

[Josh]

Hmm. I thought Christ existed since the foundations of the world...

[Szdfan]

Hmm. I thought Christ existed since the foundations of the world...

As John puts it, in the beginning the Word was with God and the word was made flesh. Jesus existed in the beginning, but he was not flesh. Jesus Christ is the incarnation of the divine. Otherwise I’m not sure why all those Hebrews in the Old Testament were waiting for the Messiah to show up.

[Judas Maccabeus]

I saw an excellent question today — how many of you armchair warriors fighting Marxism have actually read Marx?

I did in college, much of it was spent on value-pricing theory. Utility value verses supply and demand.

J.M.

I forgot about that. I remember being impressed with the distinction at the time.

There was a period where they did not know how much things should cost, because so many costs are buried in their system. The solution was using an American Sears catalog.

J.M.

[Judas Maccabeus]

I’m intrigued. Would you say more about why it’s a Christian heresy?

It presents many of the values of our faith, removal of greed, the need to climb over others to get ahead. It also advocates for an even distribution of resources. It promotes a large "common" that we co-operatively own and have use of. In some ways, like a Hutterite colony.

But it is without Christ. Without Him, all is lost.

J.M.

I hear what you're saying -- I'm not sure I agree that it's a "heresy" because I don't think that Christianity has the sole claim on cooperative communalism (which then also makes American Christianity's unqualified support for free market economics super ironic), but I think that's a small quibble. Thanks for clarifying.

I say that largely because he came out of Christianity, and the tenets he espoused were largely western. Mao had to use a shoehorn to squeeze it into a Chinese context.

J.M.

[Szdfan]

It presents many of the values of our faith, removal of greed, the need to climb over others to get ahead. It also advocates for an even distribution of resources. It promotes a large "common" that we co-operatively own and have use of. In some ways, like a Hutterite colony.

But it is without Christ. Without Him, all is lost.

J.M.

I hear what you're saying -- I'm not sure I agree that it's a "heresy" because I don't think that Christianity has the sole claim on cooperative communalism (which then also makes American Christianity's unqualified support for free market economics super ironic), but I think that's a small quibble. Thanks for clarifying.

I say that largely because he came out of Christianity, and the tenets he espoused were largely western. Mao had to use a shoehorn to squeeze it into a Chinese context.

J.M.

Sure. It gets all convoluted though, considering the importance of Christianity in Western culture. Marxism is a post-Enlightenment philosophy which is an intellectual movement that simultaneously came out of, complimented and opposed Christianity.

[aussieandy]

I saw an excellent question today — how many of you armchair warriors fighting Marxism have actually read Marx?

I've read most of his works. One has to remember he even had mutliple students who were Christians. Yeah, he became atheist but his daughter Eleanor Marx and one of his students (William Morris) were lifelong friends. William was a deeply devout Christian (most of the Mission furniture made today by Anabaptists stem from the movement he created; fun fact).

It wasn't until Lenin and the Bolshevik's interpreted his doctrines to suit their heavy atheistic bias that things changed. Most of the Orthodox Marxists (Rosa Luxemburg etc) were in fact, Jews and Germany, France and to a lesser extent England were where these folks were located. Russia, on the far outskirts, was regarded as a bit of a backwater and they were very much in disagreement with the actual line of Marxists. When the German rebellion died a death, the orthodox form of Marxism was left to Left Communism (in the form of Council Communism and also the Italian Left) and these two currents are probably the last remnants of actual Marxism in its original state (or close enough to it).

Bolshevik and Stalinist Marxism became the majority in today's world and don't really reflect what Marx was advocating. Hope that Helps answer your question.

[barnhart]

Interesting aussieandy, I was unaware of the connection with Morris. One addendum, as hard as the bolsheviks worked to remake Marx in their own image, the eastern Marxist worked even harder. I don't imagine Marx would have recognized the great leaps forward or back that Mao and Pol Pot initiated.

[aussieandy]

Interesting aussieandy, I was unaware of the connection with Morris. One addendum, as hard as the bolsheviks worked to remake Marx in their own image, the eastern Marxist worked even harder. I don't imagine Marx would have recognized the great leaps forward or back that Mao and Pol Pot initiated.

Maoism is just an addendum to Stalinism (peasants instead of proletariat) and Pol Pot made it up as he went along (more a despot using Maoist 'communism' to disguise his military dictatorship). Mao went even more anti-religion but again, non of this anti-religious hatred was around in Marx's original circles.