R7ehr wrote: ↑Thu Dec 18, 2025 8:07 pm
I guess one outcome might be that small weak countries that turn to Communism, might think twice about nationalizing American business assets.
Or they will work harder to secure more ties with an alternate superpower like Russia or China.
Since World War II, we have been able to persuade much of the world that they are better off in the free world. Now we are loudly proclaiming that we are only in it for ourselves, that we do not believe in allies, and what really matters is "spheres of influence" and "client states". Real power is military power and the ability to threaten, not economic cooperation to build shared prosperity.
This positioning is exactly what you see in speeches by Putin.
And I think it is the model that gave us two World Wars.
1 x
1. Are we discussing the topic? Good.
2. Are we going around and around in a fight? Let's stop doing that.
3. Is there some serious wrongdoing or relational injury? Let's address that, probably not in public and certainly not for show.
Bootstrap wrote: ↑Fri Dec 19, 2025 11:49 am
Since World War II, we have been able to persuade much of the world that they are better off in the free world. Now we are loudly proclaiming that we are only in it for ourselves, that we do not believe in allies, and what really matters is "spheres of influence" and "client states". Real power is military power and the ability to threaten, not economic cooperation to build shared prosperity.
This positioning is exactly what you see in speeches by Putin.
And I think it is the model that gave us two World Wars.
At least Putin is semi-honest about it. And perhaps our current president… in the past it was being done and just simply lied about.
Bootstrap wrote: ↑Fri Dec 19, 2025 11:49 am
Since World War II, we have been able to persuade much of the world that they are better off in the free world. Now we are loudly proclaiming that we are only in it for ourselves, that we do not believe in allies, and what really matters is "spheres of influence" and "client states". Real power is military power and the ability to threaten, not economic cooperation to build shared prosperity.
This positioning is exactly what you see in speeches by Putin.
And I think it is the model that gave us two World Wars.
At least Putin is semi-honest about it. And perhaps our current president… in the past it was being done and just simply lied about.
There is some truth in this cynical view but it also overlooks the truth of boot's point, the cold war was won when the masses chose governments that aligned with the values of the West. Influence and freedom over force and violence....
Bootstrap wrote: ↑Fri Dec 19, 2025 11:49 am
Since World War II, we have been able to persuade much of the world that they are better off in the free world. Now we are loudly proclaiming that we are only in it for ourselves, that we do not believe in allies, and what really matters is "spheres of influence" and "client states". Real power is military power and the ability to threaten, not economic cooperation to build shared prosperity.
This positioning is exactly what you see in speeches by Putin.
And I think it is the model that gave us two World Wars.
At least Putin is semi-honest about it. And perhaps our current president… in the past it was being done and just simply lied about.
The US hasn't really gone to war in Venezuela, yet. But the US did go to war against Iraq, Afghanistan, and conducted many other military operations in various areas of the globe in recent decades. How would US action in Venezuela be different from all of these other operations?
Bootstrap wrote: ↑Fri Dec 19, 2025 11:49 am
Since World War II, we have been able to persuade much of the world that they are better off in the free world. Now we are loudly proclaiming that we are only in it for ourselves, that we do not believe in allies, and what really matters is "spheres of influence" and "client states". Real power is military power and the ability to threaten, not economic cooperation to build shared prosperity.
This positioning is exactly what you see in speeches by Putin.
And I think it is the model that gave us two World Wars.
At least Putin is semi-honest about it. And perhaps our current president… in the past it was being done and just simply lied about.
There is some truth in this cynical view but it also overlooks the truth of boot's point, the cold war was won when the masses chose governments that aligned with the values of the West. Influence and freedom over force and violence....
McCarthyism would like a word
Grenada is a pretty clear example of us providing freedom and influence with force and violence.
Bootstrap wrote: ↑Fri Dec 19, 2025 11:49 am
Since World War II, we have been able to persuade much of the world that they are better off in the free world. Now we are loudly proclaiming that we are only in it for ourselves, that we do not believe in allies, and what really matters is "spheres of influence" and "client states". Real power is military power and the ability to threaten, not economic cooperation to build shared prosperity.
This positioning is exactly what you see in speeches by Putin.
And I think it is the model that gave us two World Wars.
At least Putin is semi-honest about it. And perhaps our current president… in the past it was being done and just simply lied about.
There is some truth in this cynical view but it also overlooks the truth of boot's point, the cold war was won when the masses chose governments that aligned with the values of the West. Influence and freedom over force and violence....
And I think there's a really interesting reason that worked so well for the United States. Yes, the United States pursues its own interests, but those interests are not the same as Russia's or China's.
1. Are we discussing the topic? Good.
2. Are we going around and around in a fight? Let's stop doing that.
3. Is there some serious wrongdoing or relational injury? Let's address that, probably not in public and certainly not for show.
