Illegal alien arrivals now greater than American births?

[joshuabgood]

I am intending only to make historical and present observations regarding how and why American society receives immigrants, who are near totally, people of color.

… so immigrants have been and are near totally “people of color”?

Why does it matter to bring up race at all? Why is it important? Why can’t we just view people as human beings, and the groupings of people identified by ways other than race?

Don’t you want to have a colorblind society?

I appreciate the invitation to discuss it further, but I think I will pass at this time. It feels like we would probably mostly be restating perspectives that have already been pretty thoroughly discussed...and there is a degree of sensitivity around it that also makes online convos tricky. Thanks for understanding.

[ken_sylvania]

I am intending only to make historical and present observations regarding how and why American society receives immigrants, who are near totally, people of color.

… so immigrants have been and are near totally “people of color”?

Why does it matter to bring up race at all? Why is it important? Why can’t we just view people as human beings, and the groupings of people identified by ways other than race?

Don’t you want to have a colorblind society?

I appreciate the invitation to discuss it further, but I think I will pass at this time. It feels like we would probably mostly be restating perspectives that have already been pretty thoroughly discussed...and there is a degree of sensitivity around it that also makes online convos tricky. Thanks for understanding.

Somehow I have this feeling that if you and I were to get in a room together sometime and discuss the topic we would find we agree much more than we disagree.

[Thomas_muntzer]

I used GPT to generate outlines of two of Renaud Camus' most important works. Perhaps this will help explain why I think Christians should avoid signing on to Great Replacement ideology.

I am really concerned that this kind of thing is being mainstreamed in this country. Even by Christians.

Outline of Le Grand Remplacement (2011)

1. Definition of the concept
- Replacement of one people by another
- Framed as the central fact of our time
- Described as simple and obvious to anyone who looks

2. Denial and complicity
- Elites (political, media, cultural) accused of actively enabling this transformation
- Denunciation of “official discourse” that denies it is happening

3. Historical perspective
- Claims this is the biggest change since the fall of the Roman Empire or the Barbarian invasions
- Presents it as a civilizational threat

4. Mechanisms of replacement
- Mass immigration
- Higher birth rates among newcomers
- Cultural erasure and suppression of dissent

5. Call to awareness
- Urges readers to recognize and name the process
- Frames refusal to see it as moral cowardice

Outline of Le Changement de Peuple (2013)

1. Concept clarification
- Distinguishes between immigration as an economic phenomenon and “replacement” as civilizational
- Argues replacement is intentional and ideological

2. Cultural colonization
- Describes the process as colonization, conquest, and occupation
- Introduces the phrase “substitution ethnique” (ethnic substitution)

3. Psychological warfare
- Claims that native populations are manipulated into accepting their own disappearance
- Discusses propaganda, moral blackmail, and guilt

4. Role of the state and globalism
- Asserts that governments, NGOs, and international institutions are driving replacism
- Introduces “remplacisme global” (global replacism) as a totalitarian ideology

5. Declaration of struggle
- Describes the situation as a form of war
- Suggests nonviolent resistance is necessary to preserve European peoples
- Emphasizes urgency and existential stakes

We don't need more AI slop

[Ken]

I used GPT to generate outlines of two of Renaud Camus' most important works. Perhaps this will help explain why I think Christians should avoid signing on to Great Replacement ideology.

I am really concerned that this kind of thing is being mainstreamed in this country. Even by Christians.

Outline of Le Grand Remplacement (2011)

1. Definition of the concept
- Replacement of one people by another
- Framed as the central fact of our time
- Described as simple and obvious to anyone who looks

2. Denial and complicity
- Elites (political, media, cultural) accused of actively enabling this transformation
- Denunciation of “official discourse” that denies it is happening

3. Historical perspective
- Claims this is the biggest change since the fall of the Roman Empire or the Barbarian invasions
- Presents it as a civilizational threat

4. Mechanisms of replacement
- Mass immigration
- Higher birth rates among newcomers
- Cultural erasure and suppression of dissent

5. Call to awareness
- Urges readers to recognize and name the process
- Frames refusal to see it as moral cowardice

Outline of Le Changement de Peuple (2013)

1. Concept clarification
- Distinguishes between immigration as an economic phenomenon and “replacement” as civilizational
- Argues replacement is intentional and ideological

2. Cultural colonization
- Describes the process as colonization, conquest, and occupation
- Introduces the phrase “substitution ethnique” (ethnic substitution)

3. Psychological warfare
- Claims that native populations are manipulated into accepting their own disappearance
- Discusses propaganda, moral blackmail, and guilt

4. Role of the state and globalism
- Asserts that governments, NGOs, and international institutions are driving replacism
- Introduces “remplacisme global” (global replacism) as a totalitarian ideology

5. Declaration of struggle
- Describes the situation as a form of war
- Suggests nonviolent resistance is necessary to preserve European peoples
- Emphasizes urgency and existential stakes

We don't need more AI slop

I agree. There’s already enough misinformation here. We don’t need machines creating more of it.

[Thomas_muntzer]

That’s why we have a legal process. Jesus never encouraged breaking the law.

We no longer have a legal process of any kind.

What we have instead is a government breaking the law right and left to achieve their political objectives because they found the legal process too inconvenient and constraining.

It’s a shame Biden created this whole terrible situation just to get votes from illegal citizens (yes that’s why they started pouring in as soon as he “supposedly “ was elected) it’s all about getting more votes NOT compassion. Studies have already shown Republicans donate more than Democrats so I’m sick and tired of the accusations that because we want control over our borders we are haters. That is a false accusation.

Not only getting more votes but also change dramatically the composition of the house of representatives and the electoral college. California would have like 42 electoral instead of 54 if illegal inmigrants were deported from california

[Ken]

We no longer have a legal process of any kind.

What we have instead is a government breaking the law right and left to achieve their political objectives because they found the legal process too inconvenient and constraining.

It’s a shame Biden created this whole terrible situation just to get votes from illegal citizens (yes that’s why they started pouring in as soon as he “supposedly “ was elected) it’s all about getting more votes NOT compassion. Studies have already shown Republicans donate more than Democrats so I’m sick and tired of the accusations that because we want control over our borders we are haters. That is a false accusation.

Not only getting more votes but also change dramatically the composition of the house of representatives and the electoral college. California would have like 42 electoral instead of 54 if illegal inmigrants were deported from california

California, Texas, and Florida are the three states with the most immigrants. So representation in the House of Representatives pretty much evens out.

In any event, the last redistricting was in 2020 when Trump was in office, not Biden. You do realize the census is only once every 10 years?

[Bootstrap]

Not only getting more votes but also change dramatically the composition of the house of representatives and the electoral college. California would have like 42 electoral instead of 54 if illegal inmigrants were deported from california

It's true that even people who cannot vote are counted when they calculate the population of the state for the electoral college, but without illegal immigrants, California would lose 1-2 seats, not 12.

[Ken]

Not only getting more votes but also change dramatically the composition of the house of representatives and the electoral college. California would have like 42 electoral instead of 54 if illegal inmigrants were deported from california

It's true that even people who cannot vote are counted when they calculate the population of the state for the electoral college, but without illegal immigrants, California would lose 1-2 seats, not 12.

It would also not change the composition of Congress or possibly make it more blue since TX and FL have more immigrants combined than does CA.

[Bootstrap]

Not only getting more votes but also change dramatically the composition of the house of representatives and the electoral college. California would have like 42 electoral instead of 54 if illegal inmigrants were deported from california

It's true that even people who cannot vote are counted when they calculate the population of the state for the electoral college, but without illegal immigrants, California would lose 1-2 seats, not 12.

It would also not change the composition of Congress or possibly make it more blue since TX and FL have more immigrants combined than does CA.

California, Florida, and Texas would have one less congressional seat. Alabama, Minnesota, and Ohio would each have one more. So I agree, it wouldn't make it more blue.

[Jazman]

And I choose not to attempt to substantively influence those laws, as I feel the whole system is of the worldly kingdoms and cannot by definition operate according to Christ's laws of love.

Why not advocate for them to bit by bit create policies that are in harmony with and build the kingdom of God? Can't we, wherever possible, advocate and affirm those pieces that are in harmony with God's kingdom, wherever we find them or wherever they could exist? And who knows, if bit by bit, as with Wilbeeforce, things will turn ever so slowly God's direction and come under his reign and rule?

In what substantial way would this sort of advocacy differ from the garden variety political activism of both the Christian left and right that we've seen for years, and which some say is making increasing inroads among Anabaptists? If we're just going to be politically engaged, then fine. There are any number of Christian lobbying organizations we can join that have been operating for years and that probably know what they're doing.

And what are the chances that taking up advocacy for government policies will have as much influence on us as it does on the government? Is it really something Jesus would do?

I don't think you have to become an activist... just speak up in your context; let your young people, your congregation, your family know that you're not going to pick a side in our binary system; that you're not going to only talk about/condemn the crotch issues (abortion ,sexual morality or gender issues) that "christian" ie right wing GOP loyal internet/media focuses on/makes bank on. My observations suggest that more public speaking up/about the other moral issues/injustices, might have a big impact. In my context over the years, it seems like our silence on some of those other areas deemed "unsafe" has allowed a lot of other immoral ideas/assumptions to enter our church subculture. The gender/sexual morality political issues are safe to talk about, allll the time... pretty much everything else is off the table; not even clergy are allowed to address them for fear of being hushed with the slogan "that's too political! Be quiet!"

So... I'd suggest this "advocacy" (no PACs, lobbying, voting, phone calling/door knocking, protesting involved...)
1. Leaders or laity publicly mention known victims or targets of particular policies, especially when it feels like mercy or due process are being withheld and call for prayer for those people (if known/reported publicly, then mention names)

2. Individually, if your asked in a group of friends, family, colleagues, or you're listening to a discussion, speak up and say it plainly or imply that something was wrong/violated Jesus teachings/ethics. Maybe only this... "That's wrong or that was wrong" Ideally, this should be said no matter the tribes or partisan sides involved. eg I can say what Harvey Weinstein did to numerous women was wrong, as strongly as I can say what Trump did to numerous women was wrong... Can I realistically do much more than that? No, but I can say something. That little bit of verbiage might be the little nudge or trickle down effect that can turn tides.

3. Pastors/teachers/leaders should use their platforms/pulpits etc, with wisdom, but avoiding silence... (imo worse) Some might grumble and try to shut it down by crying "political!", but often times the same ones have no problem with very political things if its something from their side... But if something's (policy / action) clearly and proven/factually wrong, especially in a bad faith, treacherous way... Pastors, teachers etc should be able to say publicly, "that was wrong. That's not what Jesus would do nor should His followers say or do that or excuse or justify that..." Examples... Obama flipping on gay marriage, Bush admin torture scandal in Iraq, Trump supporters invading the Capitol... guy(s) trying to assassinate Trump, "F... Biden or Clinton" T-shirts at Trump rallies and on and on...

Beyond those things, God's call on people for specific actions directed at a particular thing is probably going to vary widely. Different giftings, different contexts, different personal convictions, denomination guidelines etc. But the, staying silent way of my ancestors? No, I think we're called to something better than that.

So in this moment now, the Maga official?/influencer? joking about feeding alligators with immigrants... every true Christian here and anywhere should be disgusted by that and be able to say "That's wrong" My pastors should be able to stand in front of the congregation and talk about that as an example of moral depravity and exhort the congregation to feel the same way. And turn it towards a prayer for the sick person saying something like that publicly (a prayer for their repentance) and also prayers for anyone that was targeted/dehumanized by that.

If those two small things were done more often and had been done more often over the years, I wonder if we'd either - have less nominal christian/hyper-partisan people in our churches - or - they would have grown out of that into a more Christ-influenced civic stance/theology of politics / less entanglement in partisan politics and therefore a clearer moral compass that could discern and speak up about any-all moral issues regardless of political tribe/media silo etc... I think either way the church would be healthier.