Russia Invades Ukraine 2022

[temporal1]

Well, according to this thread, hypothetically we could offer the Russian army sandwiches and drinks and they will all pack up and go home and the war will be over.

Not hypothetically,
i was touched by this CM sentiment when i first read it on MD, it directly resonated with what i found in scriptures.
And this:

The Christian ideal has not been tried and found wanting; it has been found difficult and left untried.
Gilbert K. Chesterton

At the time, this was NOT the most radical expression of (CM) response to worldly conflict.

If something has never been actually done…doesn’t it make it hypothetical?

My response is not hypothetical. Jesus Christ is not hypothetical.

[temporal1]

I think if you looked at my hypothetical, it included things like that.
That being said… even if Russia propose it I don’t think Ukraine would accept it.

This is the most grievous part.
No healthy well-adjusted mind would easily understand or accept violent war would be the first, possibly only choice.

[Soloist]

What do you think Ukraine would accept?

Honestly I think Ukraine believes on one hand that they are negotiating with the weight of the western world behind them but the west isn’t actually on their side by relationship but rather “the enemy of my enemy is also my friend”
The longer it drags out is in the interest of both the west and Russia but for different reasons.
Russia obviously wants the west to grow weary and give up. We can see threads of this outcome even on Mennonet.
The west wants Russia depleted and weak for multiple reasons.
It seems like Putin is after a legacy of restoring Russia, perhaps he even believes it’s his duty to the church. I don’t know his actual motives and the west has not understood Russian motives very well and has made several assumptions that turned out poorly.

I suspect unless Kyiv/Kiev is threatened again (which eventually seems likely) Ukraine won’t accept anything less then either NATO membership or permanent peacekeepers from NATO holding a demilitarized zone and restoring at least to the pre-hot war border.
Russia will never accept that unless western powers start actively getting involved.

Assuming somehow a ceasefire was obtained, no one believes (in the west) that Russia will honor it and Ukraine would see it as simply a rearming action on Russia’s part and the same from Russia.
Thus I personally don’t believe we will see any lasting peace at least until Russia has advanced to the capital.

[Grace]

Trump was never going to deliver on that promise. He had no way to deliver it. He’s weak.

I agree that Trump was never going to deliver on that promise. As for being weak, if the prior president wouldn't have been weak, compromising and an enabler of Putin, the war would not have started. There is far more I could say but won't since this is not a political thread.

[temporal1]

What do you think Ukraine would accept?

Honestly I think Ukraine believes on one hand that they are negotiating with the weight of the western world behind them but the west isn’t actually on their side by relationship but rather “the enemy of my enemy is also my friend”
The longer it drags out is in the interest of both the west and Russia but for different reasons.
Russia obviously wants the west to grow weary and give up. We can see threads of this outcome even on Mennonet.
The west wants Russia depleted and weak for multiple reasons.
It seems like Putin is after a legacy of restoring Russia, perhaps he even believes it’s his duty to the church. I don’t know his actual motives and the west has not understood Russian motives very well and has made several assumptions that turned out poorly.

I suspect unless Kyiv/Kiev is threatened again (which eventually seems likely) Ukraine won’t accept anything less then either NATO membership or permanent peacekeepers from NATO holding a demilitarized zone and restoring at least to the pre-hot war border.
Russia will never accept that unless western powers start actively getting involved.

Assuming somehow a ceasefire was obtained, no one believes (in the west) that Russia will honor it and Ukraine would see it as simply a rearming action on Russia’s part and the same from Russia.
Thus I personally don’t believe we will see any lasting peace at least until Russia has advanced to the capital.

i have never witnessed such a thing as the way Z has pranced around, only needing to snap his little fingers to acquire BILLIONS+BILLIONS .. a good chunk of it with no accountability. When has such a mockery taken place?

It only makes any sense at all if that was THE PLAN all along. (i don’t see this as a Pearl Harbor type of surprise, at all.)
Frankly, it potentially could have been something of a trap. A trap with no innocents (in leadership) of course, the masses always suffer in war. That’s how it goes.

BILLIONS+BILLIONS have the potential to corrupt anyone.
i’m grateful i’ve never had to face it. it would be hell, i’m sure of it.

For those with no moral constraints (Putin+Z, the U.S. uniparty, the Left-West) - a non-issue.
KEEP THE BILLIONS FLOWING.

It’s chilling to witness.

[Szdfan]

Trump was never going to deliver on that promise. He had no way to deliver it. He’s weak.

I agree that Trump was never going to deliver on that promise. As for being weak, if the prior president wouldn't have been weak, compromising and an enabler of Putin, the war would not have started. There is far more I could say but won't since this is not a political thread.

I have a different take on that (surprise! surprise!), but that's another conversation.

[Ken]

Trump was never going to deliver on that promise. He had no way to deliver it. He’s weak.

I agree that Trump was never going to deliver on that promise. As for being weak, if the prior president wouldn't have been weak, compromising and an enabler of Putin, the war would not have started. There is far more I could say but won't since this is not a political thread.

Russia has been meddling with and invading its neighbors for centuries. When it was the Russian Empire. When it was the USSR under Russian leadership. And today when it is the Russian Federation. There is little the US can do or say about it one way or the other no matter who is president. Unless you are under the mistaken belief that Russia is a US puppet.

Russia has not intervened militarily in a NATO country since the founding of NATO. But they have meddled militarily in most of their other non-NATO neighbors. Which should tell you why Ukraine and other countries near Russia seek to join NATO. In recent times, Putin has intervened militarily with Russian troops and waged war in the following places:

Georgia 1991-1993
South Ossetia 1991-1993
Abkhazia 1992-1993
Transnistria 1993
Tajikistan 1992-1997
Chechnya 1994-1996 and 1999-2009
Dagestan 1999
Georgia 2008 - present
Belarus 2020 to present
Syria 2015-2024

And that doesn't even count Russian military interventions in various African civil wars in places like Mali, Central African Republic, Burkina Faso, Sudan, Libya, Mozambique, Niger, etc.

Of course the US does the same thing. Which is why it is completely absurd to think that any US president has much sway over anything that Russia does. Although regardless of the outcome, this war has been an enormous miscalculation on the part of Putin. He inspired Finland and Sweden to join NATO. He has inspired the remilitarization of Germany, Poland, and other NATO states. Germany alone has an economy double the size of Russia. Germany is now sending combat brigades to the Russian border in Lithuania which is the first foreign deployment of German troops since the Second World War: https://www.theguardian.com/world/2025/ ... drich-merz and he has caused Europe to largely wean itself off of Russian oil and gas, which prior to Ukraine was its biggest market. By any measure, Russia is in a much worse place today than it was before it launched a full scale invasion of Ukraine in Feb 2022.

[JohnH]

Germany is now sending combat brigades to the Russian border in Lithuania which is the first foreign deployment of German troops since the Second World War:

Oh great, given how that worked out the last time.

he has caused Europe to largely wean itself off of Russian oil and gas, which prior to Ukraine was its biggest market. By any measure, Russia is in a much worse place today than it was before it launched a full scale invasion of Ukraine in Feb 2022.

Trump told the Europeans to stop huffing Russian gas back in his last term. They laughed at him and acted like was unsophisticated/stupid.

[Ken]

Germany is now sending combat brigades to the Russian border in Lithuania which is the first foreign deployment of German troops since the Second World War:

Oh great, given how that worked out the last time.

he has caused Europe to largely wean itself off of Russian oil and gas, which prior to Ukraine was its biggest market. By any measure, Russia is in a much worse place today than it was before it launched a full scale invasion of Ukraine in Feb 2022.

Trump told the Europeans to stop huffing Russian gas back in his last term. They laughed at him and acted like was unsophisticated/stupid.

Germany's abandonment of its nuclear power industry in favor of Russian oil and gas under Gerhard Schroeder and Angela Merkel was one of worst and most stupid decisions Germany has made since WW2. On both geopolitical and environmental grounds.

Of course that didn't happen in a vacuum either. There was a whole lot of naive talk in Germany about entering into partnerships with Putin's Russia. And just plain old corruption. For example, Gerhard Schroeder, the architect of Germany's nuclear dismantlement wound up on the board of Gazrom. And it turns out that the Green anti-nuclear movement in Germany in the early 2000s was secretly funded by Russia.

Putin had a good thing going in Europe until he threw it all away by invading Ukraine.

[temporal1]

I agree that Trump was never going to deliver on that promise.

As for being weak, if the prior president wouldn't have been weak, compromising and an enabler of Putin, the war would not have started. There is far more I could say but won't since this is not a political thread.

He tried, and he had a plan he believed would be successful for all, thus making it a long-lived success.
This is an example of where i believe he can be naive and overly trusting. He underestimated the depth of commitment of the Left-West (and Russia) to stubborn protracted war. He believes people want peace, prefer not killing, esp when they can have BOTH no killing AND prosper.

Accepting killing to prosper is reprehensible to him. He can’t believe it.

biden proved to be evil, but not alone. he was used as cover for worse+much worse, as is now coming to light.
he “looked” the part. window dressing. of course, when he was allowed to speak, it was disastrous. not the dementia factor alone.

The Left-West Uniparty was allowed to gain so much power over decades. Close to a route.
Time will tell to what degree they recede, if at all. They are self-serving, cagey, ruthless. Even to their own.

Godlessness is no place to be.