Russia Invades Ukraine 2022

[JohnH]

I mean, Putin talks about how the Russian empire or ethno-state or whatever has been what it since the 900s, but I don't really agree with him. If you do, that's fine, we're allowed to disagree.

[Ken]

I mean, Putin talks about how the Russian empire or ethno-state or whatever has been what it since the 900s, but I don't really agree with him. If you do, that's fine, we're allowed to disagree.

My point was simply that many historians view the Russian Empire and the USSR as two different manifestations of essentially the same thing. Namely expansionist Russian imperialism.

And the more distance we get from the Russian Revolution in 1917, the more they do start to look like much the same thing, at least in terms of how they behaved and related to ethnic minorities and territories under their control.

[ohio jones]

By that token, the Holy Roman Empire is the same thing as the EU.

The dispensensationalists certainly thought it was, back when the EU had ten toes...er, member states.

[JohnH]

I mean, Putin talks about how the Russian empire or ethno-state or whatever has been what it since the 900s, but I don't really agree with him. If you do, that's fine, we're allowed to disagree.

My point was simply that many historians view the Russian Empire and the USSR as two different manifestations of essentially the same thing. Namely expansionist Russian imperialism.

And the more distance we get from the Russian Revolution in 1917, the more they do start to look like much the same thing, at least in terms of how they behaved and related to ethnic minorities and territories under their control.

Not the same thing at all. Putin has a policy of multiculturalism, which is why Moscow is now under 70% ethnic Russian. In the late 1800s, it was closer to 95%.

[Ken]

I mean, Putin talks about how the Russian empire or ethno-state or whatever has been what it since the 900s, but I don't really agree with him. If you do, that's fine, we're allowed to disagree.

My point was simply that many historians view the Russian Empire and the USSR as two different manifestations of essentially the same thing. Namely expansionist Russian imperialism.

And the more distance we get from the Russian Revolution in 1917, the more they do start to look like much the same thing, at least in terms of how they behaved and related to ethnic minorities and territories under their control.

Not the same thing at all. Putin has a policy of multiculturalism, which is why Moscow is now under 70% ethnic Russian. In the late 1800s, it was closer to 95%.

Putin doesn't have a policy of multiculturalism. He has a policy of Russian nationalism and Russian imperialism. And if you are a non-ethnic Russian family who settles in Moscow for economic reasons, your children will quickly become "Russified." They will attend Russian speaking schools, conduct business in Russian, be exposed to exclusively Russian language media, learn to be Russian and their former ethnic identity will be erased.

That is why Russia attempts to intervene and prop up Russian speaking populations everywhere on its periphery. In Ukraine of course, in Moldova where he supports Russian separatist movements in Transnistria. In Georgia where they support Russian separatist movements in Abkhazia and South Ossetia. And in the Baltic states where Russia also backs pro-Russian movements.

The same policy has more or less been constant from the Russian Empire to the USSR to today's Russian Federation. In all three iterations, the policy has been to suppress local ethnic populations and settle Russian-speaking populations into those areas as a means of control. So, for example, during the early 20th Century and WW2, the USSR suppressed and displaced native Lithuanian, Latvian, and Estonian populations from the Baltic states (sending them to Siberia) and brought in Russian-speaking settlers to replace them. See, for example: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Priboi Russia is doing the same exact thing today in Ukraine and Georgia. In the parts of Ukraine under Russian control, the Ukrainian language and culture is being repressed and Russian nationalism is being fostered. And Russia has plans to bring in up to 5 million Russian settlers to populate the parts of Ukraine under its control. Same exact thing the USSR did, and same exact thing that the Russian Empire did under the Tsars.

[JohnH]

The same policy has more or less been constant from the Russian Empire to the USSR to today's Russian Federation.

Yeah, the policy that took Moscow from 95% ethnic Russian in the late 1800s to under 70% today.

[Ken]

The same policy has more or less been constant from the Russian Empire to the USSR to today's Russian Federation.

Yeah, the policy that took Moscow from 95% ethnic Russian in the late 1800s to under 70% today.

And, despite their ethnic origins, the majority of those people identify as Russian. In the last census in 2021, over 90% of Moscow residents declared their ethnicity to be Russian and see themselves as ethnically Russian, even if they can trace their roots elsewhere: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethnic_groups_in_Moscow

Which suggests that Russia's attempts to "Russify" its minority ethnic populations through school, business, and media are very successful.

[JohnH]

The same policy has more or less been constant from the Russian Empire to the USSR to today's Russian Federation.

Yeah, the policy that took Moscow from 95% ethnic Russian in the late 1800s to under 70% today.

And, despite their ethnic origins, the majority of those people identify as Russian. In the last census in 2021, over 90% of Moscow residents declared their ethnicity to be Russian and see themselves as ethnically Russian, even if they can trace their roots elsewhere: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethnic_groups_in_Moscow

Which suggests that Russia's attempts to "Russify" its minority ethnic populations through school, business, and media are very successful.

Are we looking at the same link?

The last census of 2021 reported 69.7% of the population was Russian.

Putin's policy has been to import large amounts of migrants from places like Tajikistan, Uzbekistan, and so on.

[mike]

It seems truly bizarre that a call like this could take place between Russia and the US, which has been supporting Ukraine defending itself against Russia for years at this point. What even is the position of the United States?

[mike]

At this point, we have now had two successive US presidents who gave some level of support to Ukraine, but not enough by far to help them regain lost territory or in any sense win the war, and whose response continues to embolden Russia to act as the aggressor nation against the Ukraine.

You have got to wonder what the end of this will look like.