Russia Invades Ukraine 2022

[Soloist]

Let me try to look at this from a Kingdom of God perspective.

It's clear which country attacked. Russia did. It's clear where the victims of this war live. Ukraine. Grieving, praying, seeking to help refugees and those who are in danger, hungering and thirsting for righteousness - these seem like good Kingdom of God things. In the way we discuss this, are we doing that or are we making that really, really hard to do?

Trying to promote the narratives of the invading military force does not seem like a good Kingdom of God approach. Playing the same old culture war games with the latest topic does not seem like a good Kingdom of God approach.

In the fog of war, I think we need that clarity.

Yes lets look at this from a Kingdom perspective

Luke 13 1-5 There were present at that season some that told him of the Galilaeans, whose blood Pilate had mingled with their sacrifices.

2 And Jesus answering said unto them, Suppose ye that these Galilaeans were sinners above all the Galilaeans, because they suffered such things?

3 I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish.

4 Or those eighteen, upon whom the tower in Siloam fell, and slew them, think ye that they were sinners above all men that dwelt in Jerusalem?

5 I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish.

Looks to me like the Russians are no more sinners then the Ukrainians and our response is to call all to repent. Taking a side, Russian or Ukrainian is not the way of our King.

[nett]

Let me try to look at this from a Kingdom of God perspective.

It's clear which country attacked. Russia did. It's clear where the victims of this war live. Ukraine. Grieving, praying, seeking to help refugees and those who are in danger, hungering and thirsting for righteousness - these seem like good Kingdom of God things. In the way we discuss this, are we doing that or are we making that really, really hard to do?

Trying to promote the narratives of the invading military force does not seem like a good Kingdom of God approach. Playing the same old culture war games with the latest topic does not seem like a good Kingdom of God approach.

In the fog of war, I think we need that clarity.

I'm having a hard time following. I don't believe nations are emissaries of the Kingdom of God, that's Christians, and Christians don't fight wars.

What is the biblical basis for always condemning the "attacking" country? Seems that nation of Israel attacked neighboring countries with FAR more violence and civilian death, in fact, Israel was admonished for NOT killing and destroying enough in some cases.

As far as I know, nothing about the role of nations or government has changed under the new testament.

[mike]

Making an already bad situation for gas & fuel prices worse, the Ukraine crisis is blowing up prices at the pump. I paid $4.999 a gallon for diesel yesterday, costing me $30 more for a 60-gallon fill-up on my Freightliner than the day previous. Almost every thing I sell in my store arrives in on a diesel-fueled truck. Price inflation across huge swathes of goods and services has already been historically high, and it's about to get much worse.

https://www.wdhn.com/news/rising-diesel ... consumers/

(This article is from Alabama and in Pennsylvania our gas & fuel prices are far higher)

[temporal1]

This kind of rhetoric is not helpful.

https://www.nytimes.com/live/2022/03/04 ... is-guy-out

Senator Lindsey Graham, Republican of South Carolina, called on Thursday night for the assassination of President Vladimir V. Putin, saying in a television interview as Russian forces shelled a nuclear power plant in Ukraine that somebody in Russia should “step up to the plate” and “take this guy out.”

“Is there a Brutus in Russia?” Mr. Graham asked on Fox News. “Is there a more successful Colonel Stauffenberg in the Russian military? The only way this ends is for somebody in Russia to take this guy out.”

“The only people who can fix this are the Russian people,” Mr. Graham continued. “Easy to say, hard to do. Unless you want to live in darkness for the rest of your life, be isolated from the rest of the world in abject poverty, and live in darkness, you need to step up to the plate.”

The senator faced a swift backlash from members of his own party, including Senator Ted Cruz, Republican of Texas, who wrote on Twitter: “This is an exceptionally bad idea.”

i hate this kind of talk.

Keep in mind, this is the NYT attempting to frame LG as specially bad - in comparison to, what? -
Promises of billions in arms by Congress and other western countries/entities? That’s a weird suggestion. But predictable.

LG words were bad, but quite vague. Esp compared to “what else” is out there. He also deserves an opp to explain.

obama is the only one i can think of who gets a pass on assassination of identified evil leaders. and is allowed to brag about it, add it as a juicy plum to his work resume.

[Bootstrap]

Looks to me like the Russians are no more sinners then the Ukrainians and our response is to call all to repent. Taking a side, Russian or Ukrainian is not the way of our King.

I think we're at least wrestling with the right question.

I see this differently than you do. Yes, all humans are sinful. But we can still be outraged at particularly horrendous sins, and we can identify the guilty party in some of them.

I would take sides between a rapist and a woman who is raped, even if she defended herself. I think the Kingdom of God needs that level of moral clarity. Let's not play "both sides" with this or be too eager to believe promote the stories told by the rapist. Yes, there should be a fair trial when possible, but I sure hope that woman is rescued.

I would take sides between a military invasion and the country that is invaded. I don't think the Kingdom of God message is that both sides are equally culpable here. That is a narrative that favors the oppressor over the oppressed by saying that we will not take their crimes seriously. It's not a Kingdom of God narrative.

There is a perfectly valid Kingdom of God narrative that says we won't try to sort out who is to blame, we will merely try to find ways to help the victims. But that's not the same as the "both sides" narrative, which is really a kind of moral relativism. "Oh, how can you say that this country that invaded its neighbor is any worse than ..."

[temporal1]

.. between a rapist and a woman who is raped ..

this is glaringly simplistic. not helpful here, not helpful to authentic victims of rape/violence.

“simplistic” is valuable fuel for tribalism. something “roundly” criticized on this forum.

.. the "both sides" narrative ..

wow. that’s eery, too.
the go-to when Dems are called out for abortion, and other wrongs.

keep going ..

[mike]

Meanwhile farmers are taking a severe hit on soaring fertilizer prices. On the consumer side, wheat prices are at 10-year highs (Ukraine & Russia are responsible for 29% of world's wheat exports).

[Bootstrap]

You don't seem to have any sympathy for the people whose country was attacked and are now living in a war zone. That's not good.

This coming from the person who claims that shelling for 8 years in the Donbas was irrelevant.

No, I would never say that kind of thing. If true, it would be tragic. Seriously, stop lying about this kind of thing, I never said anything remotely like that.

I have a lot of sympathy for people caught in war zones. I think it's tragic. I do not however share your liberal belief that it's avoidable. Wars and rumors of wars are guarenteed.

There will always be wars, I agree with that. But we should not be apologists for the warmongers.

I'd like to hear more about your sympathy for the people caught in this war zone. And how you think we, in the Kingdom of God, should respond to that.

[temporal1]

Meanwhile farmers are taking a severe hit on soaring fertilizer prices. On the consumer side, wheat prices are at 10-year highs (Ukraine & Russia are responsible for 29% of world's wheat exports).

interesting to read something out of Illinois other than violent crime+murders (compared with Ukraine??) hmm. hmm.
closed businesses. drugs. gambling. abortion.

thanks. it helps me remember former times in Illinois. maybe Ukraine could help Illinois??

[Bootstrap]

I'm going to stop posting for the rest of the day.

But I'd encourage all of us to ask what promotes the Kingdom of God and how the Kingdom of God should respond to this situation. When it comes to facts, I would also encourage all of us to be very skeptical of all kinds of data sources during the fog of war.

What is the Kingdom of God perspective? What is the Kingdom of God response? If we are seeking first the Kingdom of God, what does that have to say to this situation?