Robert wrote: ↑Fri Mar 01, 2024 11:12 pm
I find it interesting that many seem to trust the government and not question that it may be unjustly persecuting a fellow Anabaptist. History reveals this has happened many times. Why would this time be different?
This is not persecution, they are requiring him to obey the laws that everyone else obeys. Anabaptism is not an exemption from obedience to the state in matters that do not touch on faith or morality. Selling raw milk is neither.
So, he can go out of business, “like everyone else” already has.
At some point, laws may need adjustment. The gov can’t endlessly distribute stimulus checks+handouts forever.
Somethin’s gotta give.
(i’m not thinking of Anabaptists, alone.) Maybe they would succeed with a religious exemption?
In my view, the problems here aren’t confined to Anabaptists or Christians. Over regulation.
If i heard correctly, this case is headed for a higher court.
0 x
Most or all of this drama, humiliation, wasted taxpayer money could be spared -
with even modest attempt at presenting balanced facts from the start.
Judas Maccabeus wrote: ↑Sat Mar 02, 2024 12:09 am
This is not persecution, they are requiring him to obey the laws that everyone else obeys. Anabaptism is not an exemption from obedience to the state in matters that do not touch on faith or morality. Selling raw milk is neither.
I suspect this is a case of over regulation, yet many seem to trust that the PDA is on the right instead of the individual. I have little trust in that.
1 x
Try hard not to offend. Try harder not to be offended.
Just because you are paranoid, doesn't mean they are not after you.
I think I am funnier than I really am.
Once again, whilst I don't agree with what Miller is doing, there are far more pressing food safety issues the state SHOULD be regulating.
Like the absolute rubbish being sold in basically every fast food restaurant or grocery store pushing ultra-processed foods, which are well established in modern medicine and science to cause disease. Why aren't they aiming their regulatory guns at that?
Robert wrote: ↑Fri Mar 01, 2024 11:12 pm
I find it interesting that many seem to trust the government and not question that it may be unjustly persecuting a fellow Anabaptist. History reveals this has happened many times. Why would this time be different?
This is not persecution, they are requiring him to obey the laws that everyone else obeys. Anabaptism is not an exemption from obedience to the state in matters that do not touch on faith or morality. Selling raw milk is neither.
So, he can go out of business, “like everyone else” already has.
No, everybody else hasn't gone out of business. Two local farms I do business with sell raw milk directly at their farms, and also in stores in the area including mine. We're all doing fine, and we're selling lots of raw milk. I sell more gallons of raw milk than I do gallons of regular Vitamin D pasteurized homogenized milk. Because we're all doing the simple steps like registration and licensing, milk testing, and having regular department of ag inspections. It's only a big deal because Miller has made it so.
3 x
Remember the prisoners, as though you were in prison with them, and the mistreated, as though you yourselves were suffering bodily. -Heb. 13:3
Judas Maccabeus wrote: ↑Sat Mar 02, 2024 12:09 am
This is not persecution, they are requiring him to obey the laws that everyone else obeys. Anabaptism is not an exemption from obedience to the state in matters that do not touch on faith or morality. Selling raw milk is neither.
So, he can go out of business, “like everyone else” already has.
No, everybody else hasn't gone out of business. Two local farms I do business with sell raw milk directly at their farms, and also in stores in the area including mine. We're all doing fine, and we're selling lots of raw milk. I sell more gallons of raw milk than I do gallons of regular Vitamin D pasteurized homogenized milk. Because we're all doing the simple steps like registration and licensing, milk testing, and having regular department of ag inspections. It's only a big deal because Miller has made it so.
ok. thanks.
0 x
Most or all of this drama, humiliation, wasted taxpayer money could be spared -
with even modest attempt at presenting balanced facts from the start.
mike wrote: ↑Sat Mar 02, 2024 11:33 am
No, everybody else hasn't gone out of business. Two local farms I do business with sell raw milk directly at their farms, and also in stores in the area including mine. We're all doing fine, and we're selling lots of raw milk. I sell more gallons of raw milk than I do gallons of regular Vitamin D pasteurized homogenized milk. Because we're all doing the simple steps like registration and licensing, milk testing, and having regular department of ag inspections. It's only a big deal because Miller has made it so.
I understand his lawyer will only present one side. The facts are that there has been nothing found in his products that could be problematic. So why have they locked up his business just because he is not filling out some paper correctly? I am sure his lawyer would quickly do that to make things right. I think there is something more going on because of the level of control the State is pressing him with.
1 x
Try hard not to offend. Try harder not to be offended.
Just because you are paranoid, doesn't mean they are not after you.
I think I am funnier than I really am.
temporal1 wrote: ↑Sat Mar 02, 2024 12:16 am
So, he can go out of business, “like everyone else” already has.
At some point, laws may need adjustment. The gov can’t endlessly distribute stimulus checks+handouts forever.
Or he can just comply with the law like the literally hundreds of other raw milk producers around the country.
1 x
A fool can throw out more questions than a wise man can answer. -RZehr
Josh wrote: ↑Sat Mar 02, 2024 11:04 am
Once again, whilst I don't agree with what Miller is doing, there are far more pressing food safety issues the state SHOULD be regulating.
Like the absolute rubbish being sold in basically every fast food restaurant or grocery store pushing ultra-processed foods, which are well established in modern medicine and science to cause disease. Why aren't they aiming their regulatory guns at that?
Never thought you would be a top-down regulator of nutrition.
When people have taken baby steps in that direction, the country has an absolute conniption fit. Witness the Michael Bloomberg's attempt to dial back on giant sugary sodas in NYC and Michele Obama's attempts to make marginal improvements in the nutrition of school lunches.
We have the food supply we deserve I guess.
0 x
A fool can throw out more questions than a wise man can answer. -RZehr
mike wrote: ↑Sat Mar 02, 2024 11:33 am
No, everybody else hasn't gone out of business. Two local farms I do business with sell raw milk directly at their farms, and also in stores in the area including mine. We're all doing fine, and we're selling lots of raw milk. I sell more gallons of raw milk than I do gallons of regular Vitamin D pasteurized homogenized milk. Because we're all doing the simple steps like registration and licensing, milk testing, and having regular department of ag inspections. It's only a big deal because Miller has made it so.
I understand his lawyer will only present one side. The facts are that there has been nothing found in his products that could be problematic. So why have they locked up his business just because he is not filling out some paper correctly? I am sure his lawyer would quickly do that to make things right. I think there is something more going on because of the level of control the State is pressing him with.
“not filling out some papers correctly” has gotten a lot of other people, in a lot of other industries, in a lot of other places, in a lot of other trouble.
He’s trying to force change. That is the underlying issue. And he is going about it in a very unchristian, but very American way. Essentially, dig in, fight, enlist popular opinion, challenge in court, hope for a favorable ruling. He may win. But this is in contrast to agreeing with thy adversary quickly and obey them that have the rule over you and submit yourselves. And no, I don’t see any aspects of this as being persecuted for righteousness sake. Just being persecuted for stubbornness sake, or for the dollars sake.
Thats my take on it based on the knowledge I have.
Last edited by RZehr on Sat Mar 02, 2024 2:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.
mike wrote: ↑Sat Mar 02, 2024 11:33 am
No, everybody else hasn't gone out of business. Two local farms I do business with sell raw milk directly at their farms, and also in stores in the area including mine. We're all doing fine, and we're selling lots of raw milk. I sell more gallons of raw milk than I do gallons of regular Vitamin D pasteurized homogenized milk. Because we're all doing the simple steps like registration and licensing, milk testing, and having regular department of ag inspections. It's only a big deal because Miller has made it so.
I understand his lawyer will only present one side. The facts are that there has been nothing found in his products that could be problematic. So why have they locked up his business just because he is not filling out some paper correctly? I am sure his lawyer would quickly do that to make things right. I think there is something more going on because of the level of control the State is pressing him with.
Yes, from I can tell there is something more going on than him just not filling out some paper correctly because of ignorance. He has in fact repeatedly refused to fill out the required paperwork and perform the regular testing required.
I questioned both the government's actions and Miller's actions in this case, and based on my research I think Miller and his obstinate defiance is more likely the problem and not government over-reach.
