Is Haiti Near Actual Collapse?

[mike]

I’m also sure there are plenty of unemployed people in your local area - it’s just easier to take advantage of people from the third world who will accept low wages and unsafe working conditions.

Josh, in our area there are many jobs here that local folks won't take because it is beneath them or because they don't want to work. It seems lately that there are many folks who do not want to work, or work til they make x dollars and quit til they need money. The immigrant population in our area work these jobs and work them faithfully, filling a big need that many of the unemployed in this area do not wish to take.
So your statement above is your opinion and you are entitled to it but it doesn't mean others are taking advantage of the immigrants who are coming into this country who are willing to work.

In other words, immigrants will put up with lower wages and worse working conditions.

Immigrants who do well at their "low-wage" jobs will soon out-earn their American counterparts at many workplaces. And then you will be whining that they are stealing all the good jobs from Americans. They can't win with you.

[Josh]

Ah, I see, so what Americans who are already here needed to do is:

- be willing to work for less than minimum wage
- somehow find a way to work without paying appropriate taxes, under the table
- put up with rampant wage theft
- put up with unsafe work conditions and not report unsafe environments
- work without workers’ comp

If they are obedient little workers and do this long enough, then they can hope to someday make better wages?

[mike]

Ah, I see, so what Americans who are already here needed to do is:

- be willing to work for less than minimum wage
- somehow find a way to work without paying appropriate taxes, under the table
- put up with rampant wage theft
- put up with unsafe work conditions and not report unsafe environments
- work without workers’ comp

If they are obedient little workers and do this long enough, then they can hope to someday make better wages?

yep you got it man

[QuietlyListening]

In other words, immigrants will put up with lower wages and worse working conditions.

Or they will work and many locals choose not to. The wages are not at the bottom, some of the companies have actually been providing housing to help.
But of course we know you know better and know everything so....... think what you want.

[Josh]

I mean, the preference of employers for scab labour is almost as old as America itself and is a rather well documented thing in industrial labour relations. I just happen to think it’s a bad thing.

[Josh]

In other words, immigrants will put up with lower wages and worse working conditions.

Or they will work and many locals choose not to. The wages are not at the bottom, some of the companies have actually been providing housing to help.
But of course we know you know better and know everything so....... think what you want.

“Provide housing” - so when you make a report of unsafe working conditions, etc or otherwise do anything management doesn’t like. You’ll not only lose your job but also end up homeless.

[QuietlyListening]

Josh do you ever see anything good in anything but yourself and your church?

[Ken]

Then make it a territory where they aren’t citizens, which is entirely a function of legislation. Not the constitution. The U.S. has had many territories where it didn’t grant citizenship.

So you want the US to be an apartheid state like Israel or the former South Africa? That is the implication of what you just wrote.

We did a lot of things in the 19th century that were egregiously wrong. American Indians living in the US were not given citizenship and the right to vote until 1924. But we don't do those kinds of things anymore and neither to most other countries outside of Israel, China, and Russia.

But one thing is certain. If we decided to make Haiti a US territory then all Haitians would become US Citizens and the United States would be taking on the PERMANENT responsibility to manage Haiti socially, economically, environmentally, and all Haitians would become entitled to all the other rights and benefits of US citizens, Medicare, Medicaid, Social Security, Food Stamps, college loans and grants, etc. etc.

[Josh]

Josh do you ever see anything good in anything but yourself and your church?

Yes. For example, I see the good in people others dismiss as “lazy” and “just want a paycheck”.

[Josh]

Then make it a territory where they aren’t citizens, which is entirely a function of legislation. Not the constitution. The U.S. has had many territories where it didn’t grant citizenship.

So you want the US to be an apartheid state like Israel or the former South Africa? That is the implication of what you just wrote.

We did a lot of things in the 19th century that were egregiously wrong. American Indians living in the US were not given citizenship and the right to vote until 1924. But we don't do those kinds of things anymore and neither to most other countries outside of Israel, China, and Russia.

But one thing is certain. If we decided to make Haiti a US territory then all Haitians would become US Citizens and the United States would be taking on the PERMANENT responsibility to manage Haiti socially, economically, environmentally, and all Haitians would become entitled to all the other rights and benefits of US citizens, Medicare, Medicaid, Social Security, Food Stamps, college loans and grants, etc. etc.

OK, how about this then? We build a big wall on our southern border, stop sending aid to Haiti, and let them figure out their problems themselves. And stop the tidal flood of immigrants from there and other places illegally crossing the border.