Housing Costs

[mike]

One can argue that in theory there should be enough housing. But if millions of wealthy retirees are sitting on all the single family housing then there really isn't enough for young families. That is the reality.

In a small way I believe that is happening in our rural county in PA, pop. 40,000. Population has been slightly declining for 40 years, but the number of households is actually increasing slightly. Real estate market is very tight, hard to find a starter home, which seems odd with a shrinking population. I believe that this is due to a number of factors including retirees living longer in their homes, realtors and investors buying up anything reasonable to flip or rent out, more single-parent households due to divorce. One's best bet is to find something dilapidated, pay more than you really should, and then spend more money to make it livable. In ten years, it will typically increase in value enough to cover what you've spent on it.

[Judas Maccabeus]

Comrad Ken, would you like to live n a Soviet style collective apartment building? That is what removing regulations could lead.

You mean like this dystopian block of 6-story flats?

Yeah, right. Soviet style collective apartment buildings look more like this:

Except for the more posh suburbs like La Defense, that is what many of the Paris suburbs look like, except they are normally 6 stories. You know, the place where Algerians and Migrants live.

[Judas Maccabeus]

One can argue that in theory there should be enough housing. But if millions of wealthy retirees are sitting on all the single family housing then there really isn't enough for young families. That is the reality.

In a small way I believe that is happening in our rural county in PA, pop. 40,000. Population has been slightly declining for 40 years, but the number of households is actually increasing slightly. Real estate market is very tight, hard to find a starter home, which seems odd with a shrinking population. I believe that this is due to a number of factors including retirees living longer in their homes, realtors and investors buying up anything reasonable to flip or rent out, more single-parent households due to divorce. One's best bet is to find something dilapidated, pay more than you really should, and then spend more money to make it livable. In ten years, it will typically increase in value enough to cover what you've spent on it.

"As of 2022, Baltimore City had roughly 15,000 abandoned properties constituting between 7 and 8 percent of its total housing stock, representing the third highest rate of vacant and abandoned properties in the country." (Federal Reserve bank of Richmond)

The actual number is far higher, likely about 20,000. Reason, crime which is unbelievable high. We normally get over 300 murders/year. Boston had 41.

Property tax rate is DOUBLE the surrounding counties, and the services given are less. They STILL do not have weekly recycling pickup.

There are blocks and blocks of this;



Typical it is blamed on racism, and "disinvestment." However, they drive away possible investment, because it causes "inequity." There was a dollar homes program. City would sell you an abandoned house, you had 5 years to bring it up to code. You had to promise to live there for 5 years. After that, it was yours, for 1$. Several neighborhoods were brought back to like that way. Current administration refuses to do this, since they want to prevent "gentrification" and the development of inequity. And the city continues to hemorrhage population and tax base.

Of note, they are actually preparing to tear these down. What will be left is an empty field, that they will try and market to a developer. They will not touch the place with a tax abatement. And the cycle continues.

[ohio jones]

Except for the more posh suburbs like La Defense, that is what many of the Paris suburbs look like, except they are normally 6 stories. You know, the place where Algerians and Migrants live.

Indeed. Saint-Denis is worth visiting for the basilica and abbey, but make a beeline to and from the Metro. It's one of the highest immigrant, and highest crime, suburbs. Not that the Algerians can be escaped anywhere in the city, really; they are in your face with beaded jewelry, selfie sticks, and miniature Eiffels at every point of interest. Paris is one of my least favorite European cities.

[Judas Maccabeus]

Except for the more posh suburbs like La Defense, that is what many of the Paris suburbs look like, except they are normally 6 stories. You know, the place where Algerians and Migrants live.

Indeed. Saint-Denis is worth visiting for the basilica and abbey, but make a beeline to and from the Metro. It's one of the highest immigrant, and highest crime, suburbs. Not that the Algerians can be escaped anywhere in the city, really; they are in your face with beaded jewelry, selfie sticks, and miniature Eiffels at every point of interest. Paris is one of my least favorite European cities.

Although my Arabic is useful……

I avoid CDG like plague.

[Ken]

One can argue that in theory there should be enough housing. But if millions of wealthy retirees are sitting on all the single family housing then there really isn't enough for young families. That is the reality.

In a small way I believe that is happening in our rural county in PA, pop. 40,000. Population has been slightly declining for 40 years, but the number of households is actually increasing slightly. Real estate market is very tight, hard to find a starter home, which seems odd with a shrinking population. I believe that this is due to a number of factors including retirees living longer in their homes, realtors and investors buying up anything reasonable to flip or rent out, more single-parent households due to divorce. One's best bet is to find something dilapidated, pay more than you really should, and then spend more money to make it livable. In ten years, it will typically increase in value enough to cover what you've spent on it.

"As of 2022, Baltimore City had roughly 15,000 abandoned properties constituting between 7 and 8 percent of its total housing stock, representing the third highest rate of vacant and abandoned properties in the country." (Federal Reserve bank of Richmond)

The actual number is far higher, likely about 20,000. Reason, crime which is unbelievable high. We normally get over 300 murders/year. Boston had 41.

Property tax rate is DOUBLE the surrounding counties, and the services given are less. They STILL do not have weekly recycling pickup.

There are blocks and blocks of this;



Typical it is blamed on racism, and "disinvestment." However, they drive away possible investment, because it causes "inequity." There was a dollar homes program. City would sell you an abandoned house, you had 5 years to bring it up to code. You had to promise to live there for 5 years. After that, it was yours, for 1$. Several neighborhoods were brought back to like that way. Current administration refuses to do this, since they want to prevent "gentrification" and the development of inequity. And the city continues to hemorrhage population and tax base.

Of note, they are actually preparing to tear these down. What will be left is an empty field, that they will try and market to a developer. They will not touch the place with a tax abatement. And the cycle continues.

Yes and there are parts of rural Ohio that look like this



None of it is relevant to the fact that there are housing shortages in many parts of the country.

[MaxPC]

In a small way I believe that is happening in our rural county in PA, pop. 40,000. Population has been slightly declining for 40 years, but the number of households is actually increasing slightly. Real estate market is very tight, hard to find a starter home, which seems odd with a shrinking population. I believe that this is due to a number of factors including retirees living longer in their homes, realtors and investors buying up anything reasonable to flip or rent out, more single-parent households due to divorce. One's best bet is to find something dilapidated, pay more than you really should, and then spend more money to make it livable. In ten years, it will typically increase in value enough to cover what you've spent on it.

Another variable in this real estate issue is the fact that younger families cannot afford the down payment much less the higher rates. Developers are building but their target market is unable to afford the price of homes.

[Judas Maccabeus]

In a small way I believe that is happening in our rural county in PA, pop. 40,000. Population has been slightly declining for 40 years, but the number of households is actually increasing slightly. Real estate market is very tight, hard to find a starter home, which seems odd with a shrinking population. I believe that this is due to a number of factors including retirees living longer in their homes, realtors and investors buying up anything reasonable to flip or rent out, more single-parent households due to divorce. One's best bet is to find something dilapidated, pay more than you really should, and then spend more money to make it livable. In ten years, it will typically increase in value enough to cover what you've spent on it.

"As of 2022, Baltimore City had roughly 15,000 abandoned properties constituting between 7 and 8 percent of its total housing stock, representing the third highest rate of vacant and abandoned properties in the country." (Federal Reserve bank of Richmond)

The actual number is far higher, likely about 20,000. Reason, crime which is unbelievable high. We normally get over 300 murders/year. Boston had 41.

Property tax rate is DOUBLE the surrounding counties, and the services given are less. They STILL do not have weekly recycling pickup.

There are blocks and blocks of this;



Typical it is blamed on racism, and "disinvestment." However, they drive away possible investment, because it causes "inequity." There was a dollar homes program. City would sell you an abandoned house, you had 5 years to bring it up to code. You had to promise to live there for 5 years. After that, it was yours, for 1$. Several neighborhoods were brought back to like that way. Current administration refuses to do this, since they want to prevent "gentrification" and the development of inequity. And the city continues to hemorrhage population and tax base.

Of note, they are actually preparing to tear these down. What will be left is an empty field, that they will try and market to a developer. They will not touch the place with a tax abatement. And the cycle continues.

Yes and there are parts of rural Ohio that look like this



None of it is relevant to the fact that there are housing shortages in many parts of the country.

But the cities are where the jobs are, but almost no one wants to live in the dystopia that has been created here. The 500 pound gorilla in the room is transportation policy. There was an effective and useful "streetcar" system here some 50 years ago. Was torn up, and replaced by highways. Most of the suburbs were connected to the downtown, and each other. BTW these were electric, and did not belch fumes.

Dare we mention the interurbans? All gone, replaced by highways.

The big difference between Europe and the US is not housing policy, it is transportation policy. The nice urban settings you provided would be impossible with our transportation system.

[Ken]

The big difference between Europe and the US is not housing policy, it is transportation policy. The nice urban settings you provided would be impossible with our transportation system.

It's more than just having metros. For example, this is the normal way for how kids get to school these days in suburban America. Do you see a sidewalk or bike anywhere in the picture? Or even a safe way for a single child to navigate themselves to school without a car? And we wonder why they are glued to their phones. What else do they have to do?



By contrast, here are how kids get to school in Finland in zero degree weather. No fancy metro here. Just the infrastructure to use means other than cars, and the culture to support it. Which group of kids is more likely to suffer from obesity and phone addiction and which is more likely to be healthy?



And the school parking lot in mid winter. These are not poor people. Their per capita wealth is comparable to Americans. They have just made other choices with how they structure their lives and the expectations they have vis-a-vis their children.

[Ken]

But the cities are where the jobs are, but almost no one wants to live in the dystopia that has been created here. The 500 pound gorilla in the room is transportation policy. There was an effective and useful "streetcar" system here some 50 years ago. Was torn up, and replaced by highways. Most of the suburbs were connected to the downtown, and each other. BTW these were electric, and did not belch fumes.

Dare we mention the interurbans? All gone, replaced by highways.

Same exact street in Cincinnati before and after the "improvement" brought by freeways