Wade wrote:Probably not going to make any friends saying this...
I understand taking precautions.
I agree with being careful.
I want nothing to do with passing potential harm to others because of my negligence.
I don't think I am a careless type of person that takes undue risks but does a lot of thinking.
But I cannot imagine for one second Jesus, the early church or the early Anabaptists forsaking fellowship on Sunday for almost any reason - especially a recommendation from the government - or even the worlds deadliest disease.
It's one thing to actually be sick and miss church but to shut church right down for everyone who isn't sick?
Where is faith in stepping into the impossible for Christ like some in the early church being eaten by lions, or some of the Anabaptists being burned to death? Yet we cannot even meet together because currently 11,397 deaths have happened with 275,784 confirmed cases... 4.1%
I am not trying to condemn anyone or make deaths of people not important but I am wondering - I am asking myself about my own faith - am I willing to die for Christ?
If the early Christians knew the potential was about 20% if they were caught gathering together and then they would be fed to lions would they have not gathered together?
If the early Anabaptists knew the potential was about 5% if they were caught gathering together and they would be burned would they have not gathered together?
This is only a temporary situation. In the historical cases you mentioned it was anything but temporary.
J.M.
One of the major sources for the outbreak in South Korea was the Shincheonji religious group in Daegu.
The outbreak has centered on Daegu, a city of about 2.5 million in the country’s southeast, after a 61-year-old Shincheonji congregant — known as Patient No. 31 — is believed to have infected many other worshipers during services. The Korea Centers for Disease Control and Prevention has reported that as of Saturday, 63.5 percent of all confirmed cases in the country were “related to Shincheonji.”
Recently, there was another cluster of coronavirus in South Korea related to a church service:
A new cluster of coronavirus has emerged at a church in South Korea after members used a saltwater spray -- which they believed prevented the spread of the virus -- but used the same spray bottle on members without properly disinfecting the nozzle, health officials acknowledged Monday.
Officials in the city of Seongnam, located in the Gyeonggi Province south of Seoul, said 40 additional members of the River of Grace Community Church have tested positive for COVID-19 after six members, including the pastor and his wife, were confirmed in the past week to have the virus.
I think it’s one thing to choose to die for Christ. I think it’s another thing to put other people at risk of needlessly dying “for Christ” because we “have to” have a church service. I think holding church services in the midst of a pandemic in which there is risk of infecting vulnerable people is a form of negligence.
This isn’t persecution. This isn’t forever. Churches have a responsibility to keep their congregants safe.
So you say you can go to work because you cannot afford not to go? But yet to go to church for spiritual nourishment that is negligent?
In Oregon we go to work because we are allowed to. We probably wouldn’t if we were told to stop.
We are told not to have church in groups over 25, so we aren’t. We are planning for groups 25 and fewer to meet for church, one group will meet at our regular meeting time and place.
If we felt it was religious discrimination saying we couldn’t meet at all, we’d not be morally obligated to try to be under 25.
Wade wrote:So you say you can go to work because you cannot afford not to go? But yet to go to church for spiritual nourishment that is negligent?
Satan is smiling anyway.
We've taken this opportunity to have some excellent times of worship and sharing with our children. This has been drawing us closer, creating good opportunities for conflict resolution with our teens, and drawing our teens to rely on God. Satan doesn't smile about that.
Where two or three are gathered....
Doesn't mean we have to be in a large corporate setting in the current situation.
Service this Sunday is canceled, as with every other church I know of. We'll just enjoy the free day to enjoy the new baby, and to recover from The Longest Week.
0 x
Remember the prisoners, as though you were in prison with them, and the mistreated, as though you yourselves were suffering bodily. -Heb. 13:3
Our family has called others and had a prayer meeting on speaker phone, even the youngest. It can be a time to draw families together in prayer. I am organizing a system of check in calls that will operate though out the week. There are young, healthy people in the church doing shopping for older more vulnerable members. I suspect the total amount of prayer has increased. It may not be ideal, but its far more freedom than the church faced behind the iron curtain, and there it grew for many years. I can't see that Satan is smiling yet.
Its probably more of a concern for mega churches with big budgets and mortgages to pay off.
What I don't understand is going to work and coming into contact with maybe 20-30 or 40-50 people in a day, some maybe 100's. Or one family member going to the store like I did yesterday and coming in contact with possibly 100's of people to get my 3 year old sons asthma medication after being denied a couple times when he is just about out and they've had to revive him before his asthma is so bad.
So it is okay to come in contact with 100's of people during the week but yet gathering together to worship God in fellowship is less important than work and going to the store?
Wade wrote:I can reason with you all and your comments.
What I don't understand is going to work and coming into contact with maybe 20-30 or 40-50 people in a day, some maybe 100's. Or one family member going to the store like I did yesterday and coming in contact with possibly 100's of people to get my 3 year old sons asthma medication after being denied a couple times when he is just about out and they've had to revive him before his asthma is so bad.
So it is okay to come in contact with 100's of people during the week but yet gathering together to worship God in fellowship is less important than work and going to the store?
Physical life cannot continue without some work and personal contact, and particularly that work which directly sustains life such as healthcare and food related occupations and activities. Physical life can continue without meeting for church or prayer meeting. In a time of crisis that may threaten the physical life of everyone on earth, it is reasonable in my mind to continue life-sustaining activities, even while those activities incur risk, while in the short term curtailing that which is not necessary to sustain physical life.
0 x
Remember the prisoners, as though you were in prison with them, and the mistreated, as though you yourselves were suffering bodily. -Heb. 13:3
Wade wrote:I can reason with you all and your comments.
What I don't understand is going to work and coming into contact with maybe 20-30 or 40-50 people in a day, some maybe 100's. Or one family member going to the store like I did yesterday and coming in contact with possibly 100's of people to get my 3 year old sons asthma medication after being denied a couple times when he is just about out and they've had to revive him before his asthma is so bad.
So it is okay to come in contact with 100's of people during the week but yet gathering together to worship God in fellowship is less important than work and going to the store?
Physical life cannot continue without some work and personal contact, and particularly that work which directly sustains life such as healthcare and food related occupations and activities. Physical life can continue without meeting for church or prayer meeting. In a time of crisis that may threaten the physical life of everyone on earth, it is reasonable in my mind to continue life-sustaining activities, even while those activities incur risk, while in the short term curtailing that which is not necessary to sustain physical life.
Is our leaning then that physical life has a little more importance than spiritual life?
Wade wrote:Is our leaning then that physical life has a little more importance than spiritual life?
No. To say one must choose between the two at a time like this is a false dichotomy. One's spiritual life does not need to fall apart if you have a headache and don't go to church for a Sunday, or even if you get the flu and miss several worship services. Meeting publicly with a group of believers for worship is one component of a healthy spiritual life. I believe that temporarily suspending one component of a healthy spiritual life does not mean the end of our spiritual life. Personal worship, family worship, Bible reading, calling fellow believers on the phone, and interacting online are not suspended. There are many ways to keep our faith vibrant while missing church for a week or two.
How do you think a Christian who is in solitary confinement in prison survives spiritually? They never go to church.
0 x
Remember the prisoners, as though you were in prison with them, and the mistreated, as though you yourselves were suffering bodily. -Heb. 13:3
Spiritual life can continue and we can even gather in groups of 10 believers.
Or perhaps fewer than 10 with a neighbor joining who is seeking and open to the gospel.
