Dangerous Calling

[Ms. Izzie]

When we get to the point where we lose respect for our leaders, we will be more inclined to see or hear their every mistake and nothing seems minor any more.

I agree with that. Any thoughts on what makes us lose respect for our leaders? Is it their actions, our character problems or a mixture of both? Or something else entirely?

[mike]

When we get to the point where we lose respect for our leaders, we will be more inclined to see or hear their every mistake and nothing seems minor any more.

I agree with that. Any thoughts on what makes us lose respect for our leaders? Is it their actions, our character problems or a mixture of both? Or something else entirely?

Someone once told me that his dislike for a leader got so bad that "he couldn't even cough right." In this case I would say it was likely a combination of both of the things you mentioned, with the complainer's character issues as the primary factor. Some of this is just typical relationship problems and doesn't have anything to do with leadership necessarily. When someone (leader or not) upset us, it can get to the point where they can't do anything well enough to suit us.

[Hats Off]

When we get to the point where we lose respect for our leaders, we will be more inclined to see or hear their every mistake and nothing seems minor any more.

I agree with that. Any thoughts on what makes us lose respect for our leaders? Is it their actions, our character problems or a mixture of both? Or something else entirely?

Probably a mixture of both but I think in my case it is something else entirely.

[Ernie]

When we get to the point where we lose respect for our leaders, we will be more inclined to see or hear their every mistake and nothing seems minor any more.

I agree with that. Any thoughts on what makes us lose respect for our leaders? Is it their actions, our character problems or a mixture of both? Or something else entirely?

There are leaders who generally have the respect of the godly in their congregations in spite of their foibles. There are other leaders who really struggle to keep the respect of their congregations. These may generate legitimate disrespect.

However,
There is an old saying that goes like this, "If you want to beat a dog, any stick will do!" In other words, if you dislike someone, you can fine however many ways to put them down.
This applies to any relationship, not just relationship with leaders.
Another mentor told me this, "People sometimes say that they divided over doctrine. I think that they disliked each other before they parted ways over doctrine. There are many people who have had different doctrine but considered each other good friends."

[Sudsy]

When we get to the point where we lose respect for our leaders, we will be more inclined to see or hear their every mistake and nothing seems minor any more.

I agree with that. Any thoughts on what makes us lose respect for our leaders? Is it their actions, our character problems or a mixture of both? Or something else entirely?

It could possibly be we have set a standard for them that Jesus has not set. Or we see other's sins but don't regard our own as being as bad. The splint and log in the eye thingy. Or it could be our interpretation of Romans 14. It isn't hard to find on the Internet, leaders dis-respecting other Christian leaders over their failings or different doctrinal stances. The reason is often 'protecting the truth'. Some groups dedicate sites to dis-respecting other Christian leaders and come across as they are the chosen few with God's truth. I believe the scripture gives us warning about attitudes of dis-respect for leaders. God is using some to further His Kingdom whether we respect them or not and that is something to also consider.

[barnhart]

In 2012 Paul Tripp published a book titled. "Dangerous Calling - Confronting the Unique Challenges of Pastoral Ministry".
Ironically the promo blurbs on the back cover of the first edition feature 5 pastors - 3 of which have subsequently been disgraced by significant sin or falling away from the faith. One of those was Josh Harris which is what caught my attention due to the recent news.

In addition to those three disgraced pastors on the cover of the book, (James MacDonald, Josh Harris, Tullian Tchividjian) there have been a rash of others in the past couple years such as Mark Driscoll, Bill Hybels, Perry Noble, Darrin Patrick, Rob Bell, Andy Savage, and the list could go on and on. These are just some of the more well known ones in the evangelical world. There have been numerous scandals in the Catholic world and then we could go back to the Jim Bakker, Jimmy Swaggart, Ted Haggard, and other scandals of earlier times plus thousands of lessor known pastors whose failures didn't make the news but who did great damage to their churches and families.

And while it might be easy for us to point our fingers at the mega churches and other groups we in the Mennonite world seem to have our own share of these problems.

My question is, what is the problem? Why? What can we do to prevent it?

I listened, via podcast, to an address by Stanley Hauerwas to the graduating class of Eastern Mennonite Seminary. The first 15 minutes were spent pointing out just these sort of dangers. His thesis was that the pastoral role is not defined, thus each person measures according to their own criteria. Growing membership? Thriving small groups? Engaging services? Its likely many burnouts occur when the goals, whatever they may be, are not achieved.

[MaxPC]

Nevertheless and regardless, congregants need to be educated in distinguishing between whining about the minor things and how to approach on serious matters.

How is it determined what is minor and what is serious? Who determines this? What is minor to one person may be serious to another.

When we get to the point where we lose respect for our leaders, we will be more inclined to see or hear their every mistake and nothing seems minor any more. Or at least that has been my experience.

My experience too.

Another factor: some chronic whiners are looking for excuses to leave. They already have one foot out of the door.

[Ms. Izzie]

Got it.
Chronic whiners need not apply.

There is an old saying that goes like this, "If you want to beat a dog, any stick will do!" In other words, if you dislike someone, you can fine however many ways to put them down.
This applies to any relationship, not just relationship with leaders.
Another mentor told me this, "People sometimes say that they divided over doctrine. I think that they disliked each other before they parted ways over doctrine. There are many people who have had different doctrine but considered each other good friends."

I agree with both of these quotes, especially the one about disliking each other before parting ways over doctrine. A "difference in doctrine" sometimes is just the cover story for people simply disliking each other.

Using any stick to beat a dog, disrespecting people and disliking somebody are not actions done solely by the people in the pews. Leaders have been known to do all three of these. If they engage in these actions, they will not only lose the respect of the people they are acting out against, but they will also lose respect from the others who are watching. The onlookers may be silent and seemingly compliant to the leaders, but given the right circumstances it comes rushing to the surface. Many souls are in jeopardy in these situations, including the leaders.

[Wade]

When we get to the point where we lose respect for our leaders, we will be more inclined to see or hear their every mistake and nothing seems minor any more.

I agree with that. Any thoughts on what makes us lose respect for our leaders? Is it their actions, our character problems or a mixture of both? Or something else entirely?

I think how we view leaders is much at the core of the problem. People say they will go ask their Pastor when someone has a question and haven't really spent the time to learn themselves, some say the are not qualified to lead out a bible study, some say they weren't ordained to preach so they don't bother to share the good news publicly, and etc. If we fall into these types of mindsets we are likely expecting too much from a leader in doing our work for us and we will get frustrated.

A way for leaders to handle this is to place a bit more responsibility on people. An example: I received an email some time ago about an upcoming Sunday school lesson and this persons mass disappointment in it. I think he was so upset he was ready to divide... I really couldn't understand his perspective very well and so I ended up asking him to lead out since he had spent more time looking at it than me. The calm reply and shift of responsibility resulted in slowing down to think, and then he apologize. Sunday school went smoothly as we came into it with a better perspective on what we should expect from one another. The original email was a cause of a bit of stress and some sincere prayers but I am grateful this brother was willing to speak up in the first place - I let him know I was glad too.

I believe it is critical for a leader to find ways to get people involved.

I ask the people we fellowship with if they are comfortable with things and if I should change anything I am doing to better glorify Christ? Even if they don't have any insight I have noticed just me asking this changes their demeanor in how we relate to one another.

[Hats Off]

When we get to the point where we lose respect for our leaders, we will be more inclined to see or hear their every mistake and nothing seems minor any more.

I agree with that. Any thoughts on what makes us lose respect for our leaders? Is it their actions, our character problems or a mixture of both? Or something else entirely?

I think how we view leaders is much at the core of the problem. People say they will go ask their Pastor when someone has a question and haven't really spent the time to learn themselves, some say the are not qualified to lead out a bible study, some say they weren't ordained to preach so they don't bother to share the good news publicly, and etc. If we fall into these types of mindsets we are likely expecting too much from a leader in doing our work for us and we will get frustrated.

A way for leaders to handle this is to place a bit more responsibility on people. An example: I received an email some time ago about an upcoming Sunday school lesson and this persons mass disappointment in it. I think he was so upset he was ready to divide... I really couldn't understand his perspective very well and so I ended up asking him to lead out since he had spent more time looking at it than me. The calm reply and shift of responsibility resulted in slowing down to think, and then he apologize. Sunday school went smoothly as we came into it with a better perspective on what we should expect from one another. The original email was a cause of a bit of stress and some sincere prayers but I am grateful this brother was willing to speak up in the first place - I let him know I was glad too.

I believe it is critical for a leader to find ways to get people involved.

I ask the people we fellowship with if they are comfortable with things and if I should change anything I am doing to better glorify Christ? Even if they don't have any insight I have noticed just me asking this changes their demeanor in how we relate to one another.

The high lighted sentence above would make a world of difference to me. I resent being blown off.