West Coast Fire Thread

[JohnH]

The West should consider controlled burns and controlled logging instead of allowing unhinged environmentalists to try to prevent any kind of forestry management at all. If you don’t thin out forests, eventually nature will do it for you.

[R7ehr]

They do some controled burns. But in terms of sqaure miles, what they do is a drop in the bucket.

As for “raking the forests” and other preventative measures..

…looking ahead, Kotek is now asking the federal government to revive the hazard mitigation grant program.

“These were grants that have traditionally come along with suppression dollars to reduce the fuel on the landscape and help repair the landscape. Those dollars were not flowing for the last couple of years," "Kotek said. "That is a problem, because if we can get ahead and prepare the landscape better and reduce the fuels, then we can reduce the size of these fires going forward. We hope that the Trump administration revisits that.”

Why does Oregon need Federal money instead of taking care of it themselves? Because while 52% of Oregon is Federal land, 70%-90% of Central and Eastern Oregon where almost all of these wildfires are, is Federal land.

[R7ehr]

Last night:

The Bench Fire started 48 hours ago, can see it from my house. It grew very fast to 4,500 acres, but is already 20% contained.

But tonight the Bench Fire is up to 7,000 acres, crossed out of the control lines, jumped a large river and canyon, and is at 0% controlled. Yesterday, I saw 100 degrees and humidity in the 20%’s. We went to see it tonight, it is moving. Wind was really blowing it. It is right on the edge of the irrigation district, where the irrigated farms are.
It is a couple miles away from my brothers house, who is under evacuation by the emergency system.
But they probably won’t, they’ll be fine. Even though the fire is moving towards their direction, it won’t burn through irrigated green hay fields.
If it was dryland wheat, that would be different. That happened in another area.
https://www.centraloregondaily.com/news ... 00296.html

[R7ehr]

Akawa Butte Fire update:
https://www.centraloregondaily.com/news ... 8a1d5.html

[R7ehr]

Last night the Bench Fire blew across the line of control. It has merges with the nearby Beachcomb Fire. It is now showing at 40,000 acres, 0% control.

My uncle and aunt evacuated for the night.
Couple of church people sprayed water with a tank a couple miles away for a little bit.

Heres a good video of the fire. This highway was closed soon after the video made by people evacuating the town of Warm Springs: https://www.centraloregondaily.com/news ... b7943.html

One of the neighbors was also under evacuation, but because of a negative experience with a wildfire and authorities two years ago, he was absolutely not going anywhere, he was staying to protect his home best he could. He was sitting on his porch with a shotgun and a pistol. No one was going to make him leave. Which they don’t. The police come by and tell you need/should leave, but it has never been mandatory or forced. You do have the right to stay and protect your home. Last week a local man was killed doing that. He was using a side-by-side ATV, trying to protect his property from a wildfire, and it tipped over and pinned him, and he died.

A lot of people have learned that these firefighters are not to be trusted to put any effort at all in protecting your home. They might - but more than likely, from what we’ve seen, they won’t. And hiw they decide to or not, noone knows. All we know is that they absolutely cannot be trusted to even put a minimum amount of effort, so if you want something done you need to do it. It really does generate a distrust and dissatisfaction with authorities.
One guy told a story today about his home being threatened, and a firetruck was parked there and they would not lift a finger to help. They were just parked there to observe - I suppose waiting orders. They will sit in their trucks and watch a small gras fire move to a house and literally not spray anythir, or loan the honeowner their shovel. I would never have believed these stories before living here. It is nuts.
Another story was how a wildfire was moving towards a home, and the guy used his dozer to put it out. But because the wildfire was on federal land, not his own land, he was fined for using his dozer to put it out. At the same time, if your fire on your land, spreads to federal land, you can be fined for that. I do think most of the time, you will not be fined for either case, but the fact that it does happen, really sours people on the government, especially because the goverment can’t be expected to put any effort in saving your home. Dontget me wrong, they do save some houses. But other tines they just watch them burn. And it is not clear at all what makes the difference.

They will have dozens of trucks seemingly doing nothing, while the fire burns. They are extremely organized. So I expect there is some bureaucratic reason for this malfeasance.

[Ernie]

A lot of people have learned that these firefighters are not to be trusted to put any effort at all in protecting your home. They might - but more than likely, from what we’ve seen, they won’t. And hiw they decide to or not, noone knows. All we know is that they absolutely cannot be trusted to even put a minimum amount of effort, so if you want something done you need to do it. It really does generate a distrust and dissatisfaction with authorities.

...
Don't get me wrong, they do save some houses. But other tines they just watch them burn. And it is not clear at all what makes the difference.

They will have dozens of trucks seemingly doing nothing, while the fire burns. They are extremely organized. So I expect there is some bureaucratic reason for this malfeasance.

Why does the populace put up with this?

[ken_sylvania]

A lot of people have learned that these firefighters are not to be trusted to put any effort at all in protecting your home. They might - but more than likely, from what we’ve seen, they won’t. And hiw they decide to or not, noone knows. All we know is that they absolutely cannot be trusted to even put a minimum amount of effort, so if you want something done you need to do it. It really does generate a distrust and dissatisfaction with authorities.

...
Don't get me wrong, they do save some houses. But other tines they just watch them burn. And it is not clear at all what makes the difference.

They will have dozens of trucks seemingly doing nothing, while the fire burns. They are extremely organized. So I expect there is some bureaucratic reason for this malfeasance.

Why does the populace put up with this?

What would you suggest they do about it?

[barnhart]

They will have dozens of trucks seemingly doing nothing, while the fire burns. They are extremely organized. So I expect there is some bureaucratic reason for this malfeasance.

I imagine they operate under a complicated web of legal restrictions and responsibilities, a little like law enforcement. They can protect themselves from lawsuit or internal discipline by following orders VERY legalisticly.

[R7ehr]

They will have dozens of trucks seemingly doing nothing, while the fire burns. They are extremely organized. So I expect there is some bureaucratic reason for this malfeasance.

I imagine they operate under a complicated web of legal restrictions and responsibilities, a little like law enforcement. They can protect themselves from lawsuit or internal discipline by following orders VERY legalisticly.

I think this is correct.
Additionally, we know that city fire departments are trained in structure fires. We know wildfire divisions are not so much, or most not at all. We also know that many (most?) of the organizations fighting these fires are actually private contractors. If the contractors are being paid to fight wildland fires, perhaps they are violating their contract to fight structure fires instead. Or perhaps they are told that their insurance doesn't cover structures, and it represents a liability for that.
I did hear about a wildfire that was raging, no effort was focusing on homes, and the community was up in arms, and then they heard that funding became available for "structure protection" and that various city fire departments from all over the state would be dispatching equipment and firefighters to the area soon.
On the other hand, on Saturday night when the Bench Fire came all the way to the edge of the farmland here, there was a empty house that the fire came up to, and we did see a firetruck sitting there making sure the house didn't burn. The fire came right up to the house, right to the sidewalk, burnt the dead lawn, and swept around the house. House survived, the landscaping did not. But there was a case of the fire fighters protecting the structure. And yet there are plenty of accounts of them doing nothing. So while no one should expect them to do anything, they actually will sometime. Maybe it depends on the individual firefighter to some degree, whether or not he is going to bend the rules (assuming rules are the factor).

I do think that barnhart is correct in what his guess is.

There was another neighbor who was not home or evacuated. The fire did not come near his home. But for some reason an insurance guy showed up there and parked. I wonder if he was dispatched by the insurance company to collect evidence in order to deny a fire claim, or perhaps to put some effort in protecting the house from the fire with a garden hose or something, in order to keep a fire claim from happening. I don't know, it was odd and out of the ordinary.

[R7ehr]

Fires update:

Akawa Butte Fire, 13 miles to the west: 27,000 acres, reporting 6% containment, but it must be under control. It hasn't been growing.
Bench Fire, 10 miles to the northwest: 45,000 acres, 0% containments. Has merged with the Beachcomb fire. This one burnt across highway 26, causing closures and 3 hour detours for a few people I know. The near side of the fire seems to be extinguished.
Grasshopper Fire, 52 miles to the northwest, 13,000 acres, 0% contained
Ten Mile FIre, 21 miles to the north: 4,800 acres, 94% contained.
Deep Canyon FIre, 29 miles to the north: 8,000 acres, 100% contained.
Little Buck Fire, 39 miles to the northeast: 36,000 acres, 50% contained.
Crosswhite Fire, 38 miles to the east: 277,000 acres, 27% contained.
Brewer Fire, 13 miles to the east: 70,000 acres, 10% contained.

The Crosswhite, and Brewer and Green Mountain a few other smaller fires have merged into one large Rowe Creek Complex. A lot of cattle in this area without feed. Community did organize hay caravans. Pacific Northwest author Rick Steber lost his cabin to the fire. He wrote a lot of short history stories about the west, capturing stories to short or insignificant for a whole book, and put them all together into books in the manner of O.Henries short stories. "Sorry to say, but the fire won. I lost my cabin, boxes of research, valuable books, and mementoes and memories that mean the world to me," Steber posted to Facebook. "A total loss." https://ricksteberauthor.com/index.php/ ... west-books
Shingle Fire, 62 miles to the east, 63,000 acres, 6% contained. One of the church men has hundreds of cattle out on the range here. Sounds like the cattle found refuge on a small irrigated area, and are surrounded by fire or burnt areas. His concern is that the calves will develop lung problems due to the smoke they've been subject to. That has happened with other cattle other years. This is one of the fires that is quite low priority, the fire is basically letting burn itself out. Not much out there in terms of infrastructure to protect.
Coyote Fire, 41 miles to the southeast: 17,000 acres, 63% contained. Like the Shingle Fire, there are cattle in this area that are being monitored.

The Fox Fire in far eastern Oregon closed an almost 80 mile stretch of Interstate 84 yesterday. As of now, at least one westbound lane is open.
Other highway closures are US Highway 20, US Highway 26, US Highway 30, and Oregon Highway 245.

"So far, the state has seen 76 large fires, the second-highest number of burned acres by this time of year in Oregon’s recorded history. Right now there are 35 active wildfires burning across the state, down one from the 36 that were burning yesterday. But many of the remaining fires are seeing rapid growth, including one of the state’s largest: the 280,000-acre Big Grass fire near Jordan Valley, which has expanded by 60,000 acres since Sunday. But the fire has also crossed the border into Idaho, federal data shows, so not all of those acres are in Oregon. Firefighters currently have the fire 5% contained."

Yesterday a man told me that one of his employees was mowing a neglected 150 acre cherry orchard. He was told to stop at noon, because of the temperature and low humidity, but the guy kept mowing. Hit a rock, started a fire, torched 50 acres of the orchard before the fire department got it under control. He is now buying a portable water tank and sprayer and an old 4x4 pickup to keep onhand for future use. These are what people are liking. https://www.northerntool.com/products/n ... msQAvD_BwE These in a pickup can be quite effective on small fires before the get too large. The upside to these instead of a tank on a trailer, is mobility. With the trailer, you may not be able to get to where you really need to be, but with a pickup, you have more agility. I had one made for me this spring, for about $1,500 but it was with a Harbor Freight motor and a low pressure pump. After testing it out, I became worried about the dependability of the motor, and dissatisfied with the spray distance. So I got rid of it, and intend to have another made with the better Honda motor and high pressure pump.