Russia Invades Ukraine 2022

[Soloist]

You offer whatever explanation you want and we can accept that we both have different ideas. Does it really matter that we have different idea's?

I used to live in Berlin, a city surrounded by Soviet troops and tanks, going through checkpoints when I came or left. Without NATO, it would not have continued to exist. If you had speculated about all the possibly good reasons the USSR had for wanting to take over Berlin, that would not have come across well to me and my neighbors. I don't think that NATO and the USSR were equally bad in that situation. NATO only exists because the USSR was a very significant military threat to the existence of Western Europe and had taken over quite a few countries.

I don't think you mean it this way, but I think it has the effect of minimizing a military invasion rife with war crimes. Ukraine was no threat to Russia. NATO was no threat to Russia - except to its ability to threaten its neighbors and gain control over their governments.

Good? I never called them good reasons. I think you are too involved to actually understand what I mean. Based off of your history, I do apologize. I never meant to be insensitive to you and I won't speak of this to you again.

As for war crimes, you can cry whataboutism whenever someone raises US war crimes but as you didn't care then, I don't see how whataboutism really matters at all. All war is rife with war crimes, and every single war has civilian casualties. They call it collateral damage and generally its unavoidable especially when defending or attacking a city full of civilians. The hospital bombed, have you really looked at those pictures and compared it to an actual bombing of a building? https://www.msf.org/syria-report-docume ... ties-syria Take a look here, bombing actually destroys the building, not just take out a few windows. Could the Russians have been aiming at the hospital? sure but the same could be said when we bombed hospitals. More then likely it was unintentional destruction. How many pictures of Iraq following us taking over have you seen? did you hear of any war crimes being talked about committed by the US military? did you see buildings that were bombed? people starving in the aftermath of our invasion? Either way... Regardless of if a war is just or not, it is evil and kills innocent lives.

[temporal1]

Soloist:
Good? I never called them good reasons. ..

NATO, UN, EU, are human constructs. All human constructs require oversight, to prevent (almost certain) corruption.
No idol worship.

If i lived in Lancaster PA for 5 years, that doesn’t make me fluent in PA Dutch or a mastermind of the Amish.
i visited Montreal at the height of their language wars, the experience affected me, i’m no authority of Quebec politics.

Germany / “Europe’s Sleeping Giant Awakens”
“Politics in Berlin has undergone a cataclysm that no one saw coming.”
https://www.theatlantic.com/internation ... on/623322/

[nett]

What do you think the motives are for attacking the civilian population so viciously?

“The parties have reached an understanding on the joint establishment of humanitarian corridors with a temporary ceasefire. Russia and Ukraine will soon create channels of communication and cooperation to organize these corridors,” Ukrainian presidential aide Mikhail Podolyak said.

It would be odd for Russia to agree to these corridors if they were intent on "attacking the civilian population so viciously"

Boot, if you are just blindly believing every sensational "news" story that showcasing some new Russian atrocity, I would suggest that If you wait about 8 hours after a story breaks before you engage your partisan outrage, since most of them are proven to be false within that timeframe.

In the meantime, here's what Ukraine was up to before Russia lifted a finger.

https://popularresistance.org/ukraine-i ... re-silent/

[Bootstrap]

How many pictures of Iraq following us taking over have you seen? did you hear of any war crimes being talked about committed by the US military? did you see buildings that were bombed? people starving in the aftermath of our invasion? Either way... Regardless of if a war is just or not, it is evil and kills innocent lives.

Well, yes. The American media has reported on war crimes in the United States, I wish most Americans cared more than they do.

But I think there's a level of disregard for human life in countries like Russia, China, or Syria that is different in degree and kind than what we have in America. For one thing, their media is not even allowed to report on those things, journalists who do are jailed, it is not safe to discuss them on social media.

[Ken]

NATO, UN, EU, are human constructs. All human constructs require oversight, to prevent (almost certain) corruption.
No idol worship.

And of course, so is Russia. It is an entirely human construct as well, and requires oversight to prevent (almost certain) corruption too.

In fact, Russia is almost certainly the most corrupt modern state on the planet.

[Bootstrap]

Boot, if you are just blindly believing every sensational "news" story that showcasing some new Russian atrocity, I would suggest that If you wait about 8 hours after a story breaks before you engage your partisan outrage, since most of them are proven to be false within that timeframe.

The military aggressor is not on the same moral foooting as the country it invades. That's not partisan outrage, I would feel the same way if Ukraine attacked Russia in the same way. Military invasions deserve outrage.

FWIW, I rarely respond on the basis of a news story in the first 8 hours, if you track my posts. It takes me time to do fact checking and compare sources to the extent that I am comfortable offering strong opinions. But I appreciate your admonition for people to wait and check facts.

In the meantime, here's what Ukraine was up to before Russia lifted a finger.

https://popularresistance.org/ukraine-i ... re-silent/

Hard to take the article at all seriously when it starts like this:

While much of the world is focused on Covid-related issues, Ukraine’s seven-year war on the people of Donbass continues.

Russsia and Ukraine have been in a low-level war for these seven years. Russia has been carving out bits of Ukraine and trying to undermine it. Calling this a war with "the people of Donbass" is a clear indicator of what kind of spin this is.

The article reads as though the people in Donbass are united and makes no mention of Russia's intensive involvement in these regions. I have no idea if anything beyond that is factual or not, it takes me significant time to check facts. But you do know, of course, that countries make extreme claims in order to justify invading their neighbors, and that they use information warfare, promoting propaganda to raise support for their cause. Tell me why "popularresistance.org" should be considered factual and balanced in its coverage. Even the name implies an activist website.

[Bootstrap]

NATO, UN, EU, are human constructs. All human constructs require oversight, to prevent (almost certain) corruption.
No idol worship.

And of course, so is Russia. It is an entirely human construct as well, and requires oversight to prevent (almost certain) corruption too.

In fact, Russia is almost certainly the most corrupt modern state on the planet.

There's a lot of competition for that honor.

But Russia is certainly in the running.

[Ken]

NATO, UN, EU, are human constructs. All human constructs require oversight, to prevent (almost certain) corruption.
No idol worship.

And of course, so is Russia. It is an entirely human construct as well, and requires oversight to prevent (almost certain) corruption too.

In fact, Russia is almost certainly the most corrupt modern state on the planet.

There's a lot of competition for that honor.

But Russia is certainly in the running.

Well yes, there are plenty of 3rd world states like Honduras and the Congo that are high on that list. But none of them are threatening World War. Russia is by far the most corrupt modern state that has things like a modern economy, space program, nuclear weapons, etc. which is what I meant by the qualifier "modern state".

[Ken]

It seems that the Russians learned nothing from Chernobyl.

Prevailing winds blow to the east in Ukraine. So the fallout will drift right towards Russia if there is a reactor melt-down.

This seems pretty extremely high on the list of egregious actions by the Russians so far in this war.

[Soloist]

It seems that the Russians learned nothing from Chernobyl.

Prevailing winds blow to the east in Ukraine. So the fallout will drift right towards Russia if there is a reactor melt-down.

This seems pretty extremely high on the list of egregious actions by the Russians so far in this war.

If this is actually confirmed, it would be pretty stupid. Ukraine doing it and blaming Russia wouldn't be as stupid... I'll have to look tomorrow and see what factual proof is provided.

Ha... look at my great reading skills, I thought this was over Chernobyl. Ever heard a Gunny say "Don't touch that button private!"