Russia Invades Ukraine 2022

[Josh]

You mean independence from the USSR. Not the same thing.

[AndersonD]

Public sentiment has changed to the point that ethnic Russians in Ukraine in places like Odesa hate Russia now, which is a marked shift from how things were 2 years ago.

This is a pointless conflict now of two sides burning up lots of money, men, and materials to blow up targets of little strategic value.

Pointless in what way? Russia invaded Ukraine. Imagine if Mexico would invade the US or Canada would send a column of tanks across the border.

[Ken]

Public sentiment has changed to the point that ethnic Russians in Ukraine in places like Odesa hate Russia now, which is a marked shift from how things were 2 years ago.

This is a pointless conflict now of two sides burning up lots of money, men, and materials to blow up targets of little strategic value.

Pointless in what way? Russia invaded Ukraine. Imagine if Mexico would invade the US or Canada would send a column of tanks across the border.

It is a pointless war for Russia. That is true. All of Russia's stated reasons for going to war have turned out to be lies.

It is not a pointless war for Ukraine if they want to keep their country and independence.

[ken_sylvania]

Public sentiment has changed to the point that ethnic Russians in Ukraine in places like Odesa hate Russia now, which is a marked shift from how things were 2 years ago.

This is a pointless conflict now of two sides burning up lots of money, men, and materials to blow up targets of little strategic value.

Pointless in what way? Russia invaded Ukraine. Imagine if Mexico would invade the US or Canada would send a column of tanks across the border.

Pointless in that I can't think of anything of value being created by this war. The war isn't good for Russia and it's not good for Ukraine.

[AndersonD]

Public sentiment has changed to the point that ethnic Russians in Ukraine in places like Odesa hate Russia now, which is a marked shift from how things were 2 years ago.

This is a pointless conflict now of two sides burning up lots of money, men, and materials to blow up targets of little strategic value.

Pointless in what way? Russia invaded Ukraine. Imagine if Mexico would invade the US or Canada would send a column of tanks across the border.

Pointless in that I can't think of anything of value being created by this war. The war isn't good for Russia and it's not good for Ukraine.

So Ukraine should have capitulated?

I agree w Ken that Russia's invasion is pointless but I don't think Ukraine's response is.

[Soloist]

Pointless in what way? Russia invaded Ukraine. Imagine if Mexico would invade the US or Canada would send a column of tanks across the border.

Pointless in that I can't think of anything of value being created by this war. The war isn't good for Russia and it's not good for Ukraine.

So Ukraine should have capitulated?

I agree w Ken that Russia's invasion is pointless but I don't think Ukraine's response is.

Saying the war is pointless or brings no value isn’t saying that Ukraine was wrong for defending its territory.

[Ken]

Pointless in that I can't think of anything of value being created by this war. The war isn't good for Russia and it's not good for Ukraine.

So Ukraine should have capitulated?

I agree w Ken that Russia's invasion is pointless but I don't think Ukraine's response is.

Saying the war is pointless or brings no value isn’t saying that Ukraine was wrong for defending its territory.

War is also not always the worst of all possible alternatives.

For example, the Holodomor was not a war. It was the Soviets robbing Ukraine of its agricultural resources in order to fuel Stalin's industrialization drive in Russia proper. It was far worse than what Ukraine is experiencing today. Ukrainians today believe they are fighting to prevent a modern repeat of that experience. The original Russian plans for the occupation and subjugation of Ukraine are available. They are eye-opening and amount to a plan for genocide. https://www.atlanticcouncil.org/blogs/u ... lain-view/ The vast majority of Ukrainians today believe war is justified to prevent that end.

[Josh]

Pointless in what way? Russia invaded Ukraine. Imagine if Mexico would invade the US or Canada would send a column of tanks across the border.

Pointless in that I can't think of anything of value being created by this war. The war isn't good for Russia and it's not good for Ukraine.

So Ukraine should have capitulated?

I agree w Ken that Russia's invasion is pointless but I don't think Ukraine's response is.

It’s unlikely that Ukraine is going to “win” in the sense of holding onto territory or getting Crimea back. Instead in the end they’ll probably lose a lot more than what was the LPR and DPR.

For Russia it’s expensive, wasteful, and isn’t going to get them much of strategic value either.

[Soloist]

It’s unlikely that Ukraine is going to “win” in the sense of holding onto territory or getting Crimea back. Instead in the end they’ll probably lose a lot more than what was the LPR and DPR.

For Russia it’s expensive, wasteful, and isn’t going to get them much of strategic value either.

The only way Ukraine will not gain back what it lost is if Russia actually commits to this war with full force.
Ukraine will continue to slowly make progress due to the major investments and eventually will be managing its own military tech through recreating western tech and going beyond.

Russia isn’t working effectively and has disjointed command, if they get someone competent…

[Ken]

It’s unlikely that Ukraine is going to “win” in the sense of holding onto territory or getting Crimea back. Instead in the end they’ll probably lose a lot more than what was the LPR and DPR.

For Russia it’s expensive, wasteful, and isn’t going to get them much of strategic value either.

The only way Ukraine will not gain back what it lost is if Russia actually commits to this war with full force.
Ukraine will continue to slowly make progress due to the major investments and eventually will be managing its own military tech through recreating western tech and going beyond.

Russia isn’t working effectively and has disjointed command, if they get someone competent…

It will take more than competent command.

The entire Russian military tradition is extremely top-down with little or no autonomy or initiative granted to the lower ranks as is the case in the US and western militaries. Traditional experienced noncoms who basically run the US Army do not hardly exist.

That is very intentional on their part. Because they historically haven't wanted to grant autonomy to middle and lower ranks for fear of rebellion. But it means they are ill equipped for this sort of war where initiative on the battlefield is necessary to respond to various changing circumstances. It works when you just throw human waves of soldiers and endless bombardments at the enemy like they did during WW2. And when you have less advanced opponents like they have had in places like Afghanistan and Chechnya. Or when you can just roll half a million troops and thousands of tanks into a small country like Czechoslovakia in 1968. But against a modern army trained to NATO standards they are falling short. And bringing in new generals won't change that.