Who speaks for the black community?

[Josh]

More importantly, why do we need a white male to enlighten the rest of us? If I wanted a Maoist struggle session, I would have stayed at the elitist university I used to work at and continued to attend and lead “awareness” classes.

[joshuabgood]

No it is not in our place to tell them they are wrong. And it is arrogant to presume otherwise (unless there is strong evidence a delusion is place. That said, delusions don't visit masses of a people all at once, only a few here and there).

If I say that you discriminate against me because I'm white and you disagree... How is this any different then what you are saying? Many whites feel discriminated in today's age.

If I say I feel discriminated by the church because I have an issue they call sin... Should the church stop telling me I'm wrong?

Are blacks treated worse then white trash?

If I see a black man walking with his pants sagging and a hat tilted back, I'm cautious. If I see a white man doing that, I'm even more concerned.
If they talk to me civilly I lose a lot of my concern. If they use language and slang and are generally offensive I remain concerned.
I'm also concerned talking to someone wearing a flack jacket and heavily armed, white or black. These people turned on CM's during almost every major war.
The ideology of BLM also uses the same ideology that various groups in the past have used that eventually end up persecuting the Christian, black or white.

There are area's in the south that the white man doesn't go lest he be shot. The same is true the other way around yet all of my experience with blacks in the south has been reasonable. The north, well... it seems that they have a chip on their shoulders and 9 times out of 10 are not educated either.
The white people out rioting for the blacks are educated and use the language you are using but hold to various doctrines that are an abomination in the sight of God. If you hold these doctrines too, well I guess I have nothing further to say to you. If you don't agree, be cautious in your affiliation with this mindset. Bad morals corrupt good company.

I saw a post talking about protecting minorities including the Amish but then flipping and saying that if you were racist, sexist or any other buzz words then we would be racist and sexist against you. That person has no idea what the Amish really believe. Are you comfortable with that idea? That's what is coming from others espousing your idea's.

I am not sure I am following what you are getting at.

[joshuabgood]

That said, delusions don't visit masses of a people all at once, only a few here and there.

I've studied just enough history to question the veracity of that statement.

Would you mind expounding on this?

[joshuabgood]

No it is not in our place to tell them they are wrong. And it is arrogant to presume otherwise (unless there is strong evidence a delusion is place. That said, delusions don't visit masses of a people all at once, only a few here and there).

I've been thinking about this a little this afternoon and I have a few questions.

* How many similarities do you need to share with someone to be able to tell them that they are wrong?
* Is it your perception that you share enough of my story to be able to speak to my error, or is it my perception that you share enough of my story that I can receive your correction?
* How can you be confident that you share enough of another's story to tell them they are wrong?
* Why does the difference of race result in this inability to correct?

Additional:. Perhaps I should clarify. I lean pretty strongly towards the existence of systemic racism in western society. I find the concept of white fragility very helpful in examining my own heart. I tend to be sympathetic to the peaceful protestors. Even with all that, I question my position to speak to any of these authoritatively.

I would idealize seeking to understand where people are coming from in our relationships, over "telling someone they are wrong." I don't see it as a matter of similarities, really, I see it as a matter of numbers. As Boot noted the polls clearly indicate the vast vast majority of Black people say they experience racism. I suggest that there is not "mass delusion" and that the ones I know are smart competent and insightful people. It makes no sense to not believe them. And frankly, it arrogant to suggest otherwise, in my view. Also you use words like "wrong" which really are morally descriptive words, which portends other issues I would perhaps question.

Regarding your second point, it is more, I wouldn't feel comfortable telling you you didn't experience something you experienced unless I was convinced you were delusional. If that was the case, I would expect it to show up in other ways. Regarding you use of the word "error" or "correction" I think don't work real well when describing a subjective experience.

Again, I don't see the pivotal point being "sharing a story." I see the pivotal point being accepting the testimony of people that don't appear in fact to be suffering from any major delusion. They are bright smart competent people. People like Rick Scott from SC, who notes he was stopped 18 times, 7 times in one year, for no reason, once with his Senate pin on. He calls the reason he was stopped is the crime of "driving while black."

It isn't about correcting. It is about accepting the testimony of people who aren't delusional, like Rick Scott. If some one lies they should be corrected. If someone errs in math they can be corrected. If some one says they experience racism...we should believe them and not assume that we know better. That is the essence of, and ultimate expression of, in a way, white privilege.

[appleman2006]

I assume you mean Tim Scott?

[ohio jones]

That said, delusions don't visit masses of a people all at once, only a few here and there.

I've studied just enough history to question the veracity of that statement.

Would you mind expounding on this?

We hold these truths to be self-evident, but for those who don't, Bootstrap started this thread.

[AnthonyMartin]

I would idealize seeking to understand where people are coming from in our relationships, over "telling someone they are wrong."

That's helpful thank you. I've seen so much lately of Christians telling other Christians they are wrong I guess I've been lumping just about all communications into this categories here of late.

I like what you idealize here.

[AnthonyMartin]

I would idealize seeking to understand where people are coming from in our relationships, over "telling someone they are wrong."

That's helpful thank you. I've seen so much lately of Christians telling other Christians they are wrong I guess I've been lumping just about all communications into this categories here of late.

I like what you idealize here.

So I've been spending my time telling other Christians they are wrong to tell other Christians they are wrong.

[ohio jones]

So I've been spending my time telling other Christians they are wrong to tell other Christians they are wrong.

I hope they can understand where you are coming from.

[joshuabgood]

I would idealize seeking to understand where people are coming from in our relationships, over "telling someone they are wrong."

That's helpful thank you. I've seen so much lately of Christians telling other Christians they are wrong I guess I've been lumping just about all communications into this categories here of late.

I like what you idealize here.

So I've been spending my time telling other Christians they are wrong to tell other Christians they are wrong.

Anthony and OJ...

Not to be pedantic, but in one case people are denying the experiences of otherwise rational competent people, for supposed delusion, never mind there being no evidence for it. In the other case, a person is advocating for merely believing those same rational competent people. It doesn't seem complicated to me. Or that similar with regard to telling people they are wrong. I simply advocate for believing what people like Sen Scott say when they describe being stopped for the crime of DWB, that is driving while black. Being stopped no less than 18 times. 7 in one year.