Sattler College Turmoil

[Ken]

That seems to be the problem. From reading this thread it appears that leadership pushed the school towards being more of a FOTW institution rather than an ecumenical one. That is only going to work if you have your own large enough pool of applicants.

Well Finny doesn’t believe like most Anabaptists and seeks to convert others to his views. The college was a means to accomplish his goals. Change the young and have them change their churches from the inside out. Ambitious and he laid out his plan in his book but he didn’t lay that out in his proposal for his college and this has caused conflict in the board.

So as a parent, I'm supposed to spend a LOT of money to send my children to a college where the objective it to covert them to a faith that I do not share? And that is seeking to "change my church from the inside out?"

[Soloist]

That seems to be the problem. From reading this thread it appears that leadership pushed the school towards being more of a FOTW institution rather than an ecumenical one. That is only going to work if you have your own large enough pool of applicants.

Well Finny doesn’t believe like most Anabaptists and seeks to convert others to his views. The college was a means to accomplish his goals. Change the young and have them change their churches from the inside out. Ambitious and he laid out his plan in his book but he didn’t lay that out in his proposal for his college and this has caused conflict in the board.

So as a parent, I'm supposed to spend a LOT of money to send my children to a college where the objective it to covert them to a faith that I do not share?

And you have succeeded in summing up one of the objections of higher education among the plain people.
I suspect that there was deception. The question I would have was it self deception as well.

[Josh]

So as a parent, I'm supposed to spend a LOT of money to send my children to a college where the objective it to covert them to a faith that I do not share? And that is seeking to "change my church from the inside out?"

In essence, yes. This went over with conservative Anabaptists like a lead balloon. (Although it isn't a LOT of money - Sattler College was (and probably still is) an excellent value as far as boutique urban colleges go.)

[Josh]

And you have succeeded in summing up one of the objections of higher education among the plain people.
I suspect that there was deception. The question I would have was it self deception as well.

Of course, Finny's agenda was all laid out in his book, so I'm not sure how deceptive it really was. Finny's original vision was to recruit non-Anabaptists to be students at the college, but that wasn't very successful, and almost all the students ended up being conservative Anabaptists from the most liberal wings of conservative Anabaptism (BMA, etc.) - ironically, from the CA denominations that would tolerate going to other colleges, too.

I don't understand why Finny Kuravilla simply wasn't a bit more forthcoming that he believes full-immersion baptism is required for salvation and that the university intended to cater to people with that belief. After all, many Church of Christ colleges operate the same way. In the Anabaptist world, he could have easily found good company with German Baptists and other Brethren who wanted to go to a conservative Anabaptist college that upholds shared values of belief in the necessity of full immersion baptism and is comfortable with linking full immersion baptism to salvation[*]

There is a large community of Brethren who would have appreciated a school like that, and it would not have caused doctrinal conflicts with the student body's home congregations. Not all Brethren are open to higher education, but many are - Old German Baptists in particular have long been open to higher education (although some, who would be the Old Conference nowadays, would feel it best to go to a secular school). I believe the New Conference and many Old Brethren would have been comfortable with Sattler.

[*] I am not saying that all German Baptists believe in baptismal regeneration/being required for salvation but generally speaking they would be more comfortable with this belief than other Anabaptists would be.

[Soloist]

And you have succeeded in summing up one of the objections of higher education among the plain people.
I suspect that there was deception. The question I would have was it self deception as well.

Of course, Finny's agenda was all laid out in his book, so I'm not sure how deceptive it really was. Finny's original vision was to recruit non-Anabaptists to be students at the college, but that wasn't very successful, and almost all the students ended up being conservative Anabaptists from the most liberal wings of conservative Anabaptism (BMA, etc.) - ironically, from the CA denominations that would tolerate going to other colleges, too.

I don't understand why Finny Kuravilla simply wasn't a bit more forthcoming that he believes full-immersion baptism is required for salvation and that the university intended to cater to people with that belief. After all, many Church of Christ colleges operate the same way. In the Anabaptist world, he could have easily found good company with German Baptists and other Brethren who wanted to go to a conservative Anabaptist college that upholds shared values of belief in the necessity of full immersion baptism and is comfortable with linking full immersion baptism to salvation[*]

There is a large community of Brethren who would have appreciated a school like that, and it would not have caused doctrinal conflicts with the student body's home congregations. Not all Brethren are open to higher education, but many are - Old German Baptists in particular have long been open to higher education (although some, who would be the Old Conference nowadays, would feel it best to go to a secular school). I believe the New Conference and many Old Brethren would have been comfortable with Sattler.

[*] I am not saying that all German Baptists believe in baptismal regeneration/being required for salvation but generally speaking they would be more comfortable with this belief than other Anabaptists would be.

The proposal of the college vision was different then what he said in his book

[Ernie]

Well Finny doesn’t believe like most Anabaptists and seeks to convert others to his views. The college was a means to accomplish his goals. Change the young and have them change their churches from the inside out.

Yes. But if their churches are not interested in changing in short order, then join a FOTW type church or start one. "Choose you this day whom you will serve!" was always in the air that was breathed.

[Josh]

One concern I had was the portrayal of certain people as “apostles”, yet… sent out by whom, exactly?

The doctrine at play was specifically a one true church type of dogma disguised as something else.

Interestingly, Matthew Milioni once told me that John Holdeman was a false prophet who had satanic visions and thus everything he did could never have good fruit, and all of us in our church are not saved (since we don’t baptised by immersion). (Milioni accepted me myself as born again since I was baptised by immersion at age 9.)

My church’s view of FOTW type people is significantly more charitable, being open to believing many of their people could be sincerely born again.

[Ken]

So as a parent, I'm supposed to spend a LOT of money to send my children to a college where the objective it to covert them to a faith that I do not share? And that is seeking to "change my church from the inside out?"

In essence, yes. This went over with conservative Anabaptists like a lead balloon. (Although it isn't a LOT of money - Sattler College was (and probably still is) an excellent value as far as boutique urban colleges go.)

If you scroll up to where I posted the picture of the total cost of attendance for 2022-2023 school year it was $56,120. If you subtract the standard $27,000 scholarship that they currently give to all students that leaves $29,120 for the family contribution (loans, student employment, parent's etc.)

That isn't the sticker price of say Harvard, but nearly $30,000 is a pretty big chunk of money for most families.

It is about the same as the average in-state public university without any financial aid.

[Josh]

So as a parent, I'm supposed to spend a LOT of money to send my children to a college where the objective it to covert them to a faith that I do not share? And that is seeking to "change my church from the inside out?"

In essence, yes. This went over with conservative Anabaptists like a lead balloon. (Although it isn't a LOT of money - Sattler College was (and probably still is) an excellent value as far as boutique urban colleges go.)

If you scroll up to where I posted the picture of the total cost of attendance for 2022-2023 school year it was $56,120. If you subtract the standard $27,000 scholarship that they currently give to all students that leaves $29,120 for the family contribution (loans, student employment, parent's etc.)

That isn't the sticker price of say Harvard, but nearly $30,000 is a pretty big chunk of money for most families.

It is about the same as the average in-state public university without any financial aid.

From my contact with Sattler students, nobody is paying that much, and they provide a lot of student work opportunities that lessen the cost even more. The information on their webpage is probably what is required by law for them to disclose.

[joshuabgood]

In essence, yes. This went over with conservative Anabaptists like a lead balloon. (Although it isn't a LOT of money - Sattler College was (and probably still is) an excellent value as far as boutique urban colleges go.)

If you scroll up to where I posted the picture of the total cost of attendance for 2022-2023 school year it was $56,120. If you subtract the standard $27,000 scholarship that they currently give to all students that leaves $29,120 for the family contribution (loans, student employment, parent's etc.)

That isn't the sticker price of say Harvard, but nearly $30,000 is a pretty big chunk of money for most families.

It is about the same as the average in-state public university without any financial aid.

From my contact with Sattler students, nobody is paying that much, and they provide a lot of student work opportunities that lessen the cost even more. The information on their webpage is probably what is required by law for them to disclose.

Nobody was at the beginning...but financial realities and the stock market in the last few years had led to much higher pricing and pushing of college loans by Sattler.