Russia Invades Ukraine 2022

[Ken]

100% of that is military aid.

Is America sending humanitarian assistance to Russia? No? Then it is entirely a matter of sending money to support America’s preferred side in a war.

By your absurd definition, CAM and other religious charities are also engaged in sending military aid to Ukraine and are taking sides in the Ukraine War:

Here is CAM's web site where they solicit donations for military aid to Ukraine and provide details on the type of military assistance that they are providing to Ukraine. https://christianaidministries.org/prog ... ne-crisis/

[Josh]

100% of that is military aid.

Is America sending humanitarian assistance to Russia? No? Then it is entirely a matter of sending money to support America’s preferred side in a war.

By your absurd definition, CAM and other religious charities are also engaged in sending military aid to Ukraine and are taking sides in the Ukraine War:

https://christianaidministries.org/prog ... ne-crisis/

Huge difference between the most powerful country in the world sending “aid” and private charity.

[Soloist]

100% of that is military aid.

Is America sending humanitarian assistance to Russia? No? Then it is entirely a matter of sending money to support America’s preferred side in a war.

By your absurd definition, CAM and other religious charities are also engaged in sending military aid to Ukraine and are taking sides in the Ukraine War:

https://christianaidministries.org/prog ... ne-crisis/

I’ve been uneasy with how we are contributing… I understand it’s difficult to contribute to Russia’s poor too but if cam was giving the same to Russians, people
would be very upset. We are not giving weapons but every support we provide for heating adds to resources used for war.
I don’t even know of anyone who is even trying to provide for the poor in Russia… we give stuff to North Koreans but apparently Russia is too hard.

[Ken]

100% of that is military aid.

Is America sending humanitarian assistance to Russia? No? Then it is entirely a matter of sending money to support America’s preferred side in a war.

By your absurd definition, CAM and other religious charities are also engaged in sending military aid to Ukraine and are taking sides in the Ukraine War:

https://christianaidministries.org/prog ... ne-crisis/

I’ve been uneasy with how we are contributing… I understand it’s difficult to contribute to Russia’s poor too but if cam was giving the same to Russians, people
would be very upset. We are not giving weapons but every support we provide for heating adds to resources used for war.
I don’t even know of anyone who is even trying to provide for the poor in Russia… we give stuff to North Koreans but apparently Russia is too hard.

It takes two sides to complete a humanitarian transaction and the cooperation of the host country. Are the Russians requesting and welcoming humanitarian aid like both Ukraine and North Korea are?

We don't send humanitarian aid to Switzerland either and there are poor people there as well.

[Josh]

Russia currently bans American NGOs as it suspects them of being govenrment agencies - and for the most part, its fears are valid.

But let’s flip it around. Let’s say Spain was sponsoring the UK’s invasion of America with money, ships, arms, and also was providing food aid and humanitarian aid to British citizens.

How would you feel about Spain then offering “humanitarian aid” here in America?

[Ken]

Russia currently bans American NGOs as it suspects them of being govenrment agencies - and for the most part, its fears are valid.

But let’s flip it around. Let’s say Spain was sponsoring the UK’s invasion of America with money, ships, arms, and also was providing food aid and humanitarian aid to British citizens.

How would you feel about Spain then offering “humanitarian aid” here in America?

So, in your scenario, the UK is involved in brutal and genocidal war to conquer the United States and erase it from the map as an independent nation?

Then yes, I expect Americans would invite both humanitarian and military aid from wherever they could get it. Although it is more likely to come from countries that opposed the UK invasion of the US, not that support it. In your scenario, if Spain is actually supporting this hypothetical UK invasion then they would be more in the role of Iran, which is providing assistance to Russia in the Ukraine invasion. As far as I know, Iran isn't sending humanitarian support to Ukraine but rather, drones and missiles to Russia for use against Ukrainian children (yes, Russia is targeting schools and children's hospitals and children's shelters in Ukraine).

[Josh]

Your view is darkened because of your hatred of Russia and your belief that there is a “good” side in a war.

[Bootstrap]

100% of that is military aid.

Is America sending humanitarian assistance to Russia? No? Then it is entirely a matter of sending money to support America’s preferred side in a war.

You quoted a source with a graphic that says that 48% of that is military aid. Now you are saying you don't believe the accounting of the source you chose. Their accounting makes sense to me.

Some of this spending is clearly happening outside of Ukraine. Money spent to support refugees who had to flee because their home is a warzone, for instance. I don't know if any of these funds are also helping Russians, hundreds of thousands of Russians have fled Russia because they do not want to be drafted for a war they do not believe in. (See, e.g. https://www.foxnews.com/world/deaths-am ... ome-report, this was reported the same way across the American political spectrum.)

Do you object to money spent to restore power and water and food and housing for civilians who were directly targeted in this war? Are there places in Russia where you think that same kind of aid is needed? If so, where? Now suppose Ukraine turns around and starts using cruise missiles to attack civilian neighborhoods and hospitals and infrastructure that changes things. Then you would have Russian victims that need the same kind of aid.

There is no doubt that Ukraine is America's preferred side. Ukraine does not threaten its neighbors and question their right to exist. Ukraine has attacked military targets in Russia, but not civilian hospitals and power supplies. Ukraine did not start the largest land war in Europe since World War II. Ukraine does not regularly threaten Western Europe or demonize both Europe and the United States in its local media. The 70 years of mostly peace that we have had since World War II has been a very, very good thing for many people, and this war is harming the economy of the world as a whole.

Including many countries in Africa who have no stake in this war except for the food they want to buy at prices they can afford. They need aid too.

[Ken]

Your view is darkened because of your hatred of Russia and your belief that there is a “good” side in a war.

I simply pointed out that you are wrong in your accounting of military aid to Russia. And that you are also wrong to equate humanitarian aid as the same as military aid.

And your response is that I hate Russia?

OK then.

[Bootstrap]

Russia currently bans American NGOs as it suspects them of being govenrment agencies - and for the most part, its fears are valid.

But let’s flip it around. Let’s say Spain was sponsoring the UK’s invasion of America with money, ships, arms, and also was providing food aid and humanitarian aid to British citizens.

How would you feel about Spain then offering “humanitarian aid” here in America?

OK, let's go with that analogy. But let's remember who invaded whom and use the appropriate names and roles. In your analogy:

Invader: UK
Victim: USA
Third party ally: Spain

In the current event:

Invader: Russia
Victim: Ukraine
Third party ally: USA

How do I feel about the UK invading America? How do I feel about someone supporting that invasion with "humanitarian aid"? Exactly the same way I feel about Russia invading Ukraine and the "humanitarian aid" they are offering in occupied territories that oppose the Russian occupation anyway.

And I would feel the same way if Ukraine invaded Moscow and the USA was offering "humanitarian aid" in occupied territories while offering military aid to help Ukraine invade even more of Ukraine. I would also consider that military. But that's not happening, is it? I feel very differently about (1) supporting victims of an invasion I oppose and (2) funding an invasion and then offering "humanitarian assistance" to help advance my military aims. I would consider (2) military spending, I would consider (1) humanitarian assistance. And FWIW, I would not contribute to any Mennonite or non-Mennonite agency that is entangled in doing (2).

Let me ask this: Putin bombed an apartment complex with cruise missiles and destroyed the local infrastructure. An elderly family had its apartment destroyed with a bomb and needs food and shelter, would you help them? Would you consider this military aid? Would you denounce someone else who chose to do that? Would you denounce Putin's choice to bomb the apartment complex? Would you defend Putin's actions?