The CAM scandal links and assorted other topics thread

[KrisKramer]

When it comes to investigation it seems many times the truth is not wanted....the want is just to sweep under the rug and continue on. When Mose Stoltzfus and others had the meeting with Harold Herr I was not asked to attend and voice anything. What victims were invited to attend? How is truth supposed to come when the victims aren't listened to? Charity knew of many allegations years ago but still they praised "Grandpa Harold" (as many in the church call him) and people like granny were called (by the church) crazy.
Is there ever going to be a real investigation? Or will it always be the church sweeping under the rug?

Nothing ever happens. When the CAM news broke, I thought maybe now..... but no.

Harold Herr has been allowed what 40? 50? Years of pedophilia and abuse

-Kris Kramer (grandchild of Harold Herr)

[Wade]

When it comes to investigation it seems many times the truth is not wanted....the want is just to sweep under the rug and continue on. When Mose Stoltzfus and others had the meeting with Harold Herr I was not asked to attend and voice anything. What victims were invited to attend? How is truth supposed to come when the victims aren't listened to? Charity knew of many allegations years ago but still they praised "Grandpa Harold" (as many in the church call him) and people like granny were called (by the church) crazy.
Is there ever going to be a real investigation? Or will it always be the church sweeping under the rug?

Nothing ever happens. When the CAM news broke, I thought maybe now..... but no.

Harold Herr has been allowed what 40? 50? Years of pedophilia and abuse

-Kris Kramer (grandchild of Harold Herr)

When was your grandfather excommunicated from EPMC?

[TruthSeeker]

When was your grandfather excommunicated from EPMC?

News to me that HH was excommunicated by EPMC. Where did you learn this Wade?

[Wade]

When was your grandfather excommunicated from EPMC?

News to me that HH was excommunicated by EPMC. Where did you learn this Wade?

I hope I'm not mistaken...
I thought I had read that at some point that he was part of EPMC when he was young but fell away from that group. It is of interest to me because in KrisKramer's wording in using the word church it matters much where this started and where the ball was dropped in appropriately investigating. I'm troubled when people can freely switch from congregation to congregation without back checking or consent from their previous congregation. Sorry if I was wrong - I really know little to nothing but share an interest in being of aid in encouraging an environment where these things are avoided as much as possible and dealt with appropriately when necessary. I feel much sadness for what your family continues to endure.

[KrisKramer]

[/quote]
When was your grandfather excommunicated from EPMC?[/quote]

To my knowledge he never was but considering I wasn't born until the early 80s I do not have first hand facts of his life when he was EPMC.

[KrisKramer]

Charity, I know, has no excuse as they were fully informed by many

I know he was no longer allowed to preach after Granny left because "his house wasn't in order" but that was the conference after Eastern.

But Charity leadership has always know at least some of the truth and has still held up this man and continues to do so.

[steve-in-kville]

When it comes to investigation it seems many times the truth is not wanted....the want is just to sweep under the rug and continue on.

Welcome to MN.

I would agree that this is often the case. In experiences I've witnessed or have been involved in, I have seen some very clever cover-stories concocted... to the extent that the real truth is almost forgotten until someone digs into it.

So many victims out there... yet they're the bad guy for speaking the truth. My heart aches for these people...

[TruthSeeker]

I . . . share an interest in being of aid in encouraging an environment where these things are avoided as much as possible and dealt with appropriately when necessary. I feel much sadness for what your family continues to endure.

Noted & appreciated!

Will simply state that it’s possible to “work the system” by independently leaving a group before being excommunicated & then forming a new base in a different group which dissents from the prior. A sort of alliance against a common “opponent” (possibly too strong a term) can develop. Other critical issues might get dismissed in favor of strengthening and protecting the most recent organization or congregation of choice. Can lead to collective “neuropathy” and virtually no accountability (rather enablement) for the individual “playing the system(s)”

[Josh]

My understanding (which could be wrong) is he was expelled from an Eastern church first, and the a Hope church next, Muddy Creek Menn. in Denver.

It would be worthwhile for some to reach out to folks at Muddy Creek to ask them what happened. Personally, I have a hard time understanding how a Charity type group accepts someone who’s been expelled from two churches already without checking in to what’s going on, and instead installs them to mission work.

[steve-in-kville]

Personally, I have a hard time understanding how a Charity type group accepts someone who’s been expelled from two churches already without checking in to what’s going on, and instead installs them to mission work.

Like Truthseeker mentioned, he prolly knew how to game the system. I've seen people do to get ordained already... be at the right place at the right time, saying all the right things.