West Coast Fire Thread

[Ken]

Delusional. Completely delusional.

There are no canals or rivers whatsoever between the Pacific Northwest and California. None. Most of the rivers in Oregon (and Idaho) flow north into the Columbia and then to the ocean. Or they flow directly into the ocean.

[Robert]

Well, if the pipeline was turned on in CA, then it must be coming from the mountains in CA, so no pipeline out of state. Maybe some river that was diverted and now flowing towards central CA.

[Ken]

Well, if the pipeline was turned on in CA, then it must be coming from the mountains in CA, so no pipeline out of state.

The California Aquaduct comes from the Sacramento River delta and 80% of the water goes to agriculture. It is entirely within California.

The other major water source is the Colorado River which is oversubscribed by all the states along the river basin. And also doesn't come from the Pacific Northwest either. Again, about 80% of which goes to agriculture. Much of it for silly stuff like growing alfalfa for export.

Unless Trump plans to tear up historic water rights in the west and take water from agriculture, the whole discussion is kind of pointless. Because that is where most of the water goes.

[JohnH]

apparently you aren’t aware of the deranged efforts to make almost all of the Sacramento river flow dump into the ocean in order to make some fish happier.

[Ken]

apparently you aren’t aware of the deranged efforts to make almost all of the Sacramento river flow dump into the ocean in order to make some fish happier.

I'm extremely aware of the issues surrounding California water.

First of all, the California Aqueduct is under the management of the California Department of Water Resources (DWR) and is not a Federal Corps of Engineers project like the Colorado River dams. So there is no Federal authority over it to "turn on the tap" so to speak. Nor does it come from the Pacific Northwest.

Second, the water goes mainly for agriculture (about 80%) and the remainder is drinking water for various towns towns in the San Juaquin Valley like Sacramento and Fresno. None of it goes to fire fighting in Los Angeles county. That water is supplied by snow melt from the Sierras.

Third, Ag interests in the San Juaquin valley have very successfully portrayed the north-south water disputes in California as about Delta Smelt. It is not. It is about the health of the entire Sacramento River Delta and whether it is worth sacrificing the ecology of that part of Northern California so that rich corporate farms in the Southern San Juaquin Valley can grow more alfalfa and almonds for export. That is an ongoing public policy discussion within California that the public is very involved in and has voted on various times. And that Trump seems blissfully ignorant about. Do you believe in democracy or not?

In any event: (1) no, there is no canal or tap that brings water from the Pacific Northwest to California that Trump can order the Army to turn off or on, (2) the main north-south aqueduct in California was built by CA and is under state management so again, not under Trump's jurisdiction anyway, and (3) the water goes primarily to irrigation in the San Juaquin valley and not fire fighting in Los Angeles. That water comes from elsewhere and not actually in short supply.

It is as if Trump is a toddler who keeps spouting ridiculous ideas (have the military turn on an imaginary water tap to California from the Pacific Northwest, let's conquer Greenland and the Panama Canal, lets drop nuclear bombs onto hurricanes, etc.) And rather than surrounding himself with people who can properly inform and brief him. He has instead surrounded himself with servile and fawning supplicants who continually tell him how genius he is. The emperor truly has no clothes.

[Robert]

Time will tell us who was distorting what happened.

[Robert]

Maybe this was what Trump was talking about.

[R7ehr]

Maybe this was what Trump was talking about.

Probably was. But what does D.O.G.E. have to do with this issue? Seems like they are just interjecting themselves into the conversation.

[Ken]

If that is what he was talking about then everything in his original post was a lie or just flat out wrong.

• It isn't water from the Pacific Northwest, it is from the Sacramento River Delta
• It doesn't go to Los Angeles or fire fighting efforts, it mostly goes to corporate agriculture in the San Juaquin Valley
• The Army isn't involved, it is the Bureau of Reclamation
• There were no environmental issues involved, it was just some pumps that were down for scheduled maintenance
• Los Angeles isn't short of water. Reservoirs in the region are actually full. It is the urban water infrastructure in LA County that isn't large enough to keep up with fires of this unprecedented magnitude. And were not designed to do so.

But of course the DOGE people have to jump up and praise Trump despite him being wrong about everything because that is what they do. He has surrounded himself with servile supplicants.

[Robert]