Opinion on the Roe v. Wade Leak

[Sudsy]

If a fetus is a person and is aborted won't all these fetuses automatically go to heaven ?
If your answer is 'yes' then isn't it a risk to allow every fetus to be born and perhaps end up in hell ?
If your answer is 'no' a fetus is not a person then is it murder to halt further development of that fetus ?

I'm curious how believers reply to these questions.

[temporal1]

In Oregon and Washington the conservative Mennonites have run into stiff resistance from the DHS.

The DHS's in both these states are infested with Pro-LGBTQIA2S+, anti-religious bigots, who are adamantly opposed to placing foster children with religious families, and further, are keenly interested in making false accusations against conservative foster families with the intention of making them ineligible.

And then they moan to the press how there is a shortage of foster families, and they have to place foster children in hotel rooms, and staff that hotel room 24 hours a day with a DHS employee.

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/suprem ... us-liberty

The Supreme Court sided unanimously with a Catholic foster agency in a dispute against the city of Philadelphia over whether it should be banned from participating in the city's foster program because it excludes same-sex couples.

The group, Catholic Social Services (CSS), claimed that "Philadelphia’s attempts to exclude the Catholic Church from foster care" violated the First Amendment. Lawyers for the city, meanwhile, said that CSS "lacks a constitutional right to demand that DHS offer it a contract that omits the same nondiscrimination requirement every other FFCA must follow when performing services for the City."

In a 9-0 ruling, the justices sided with Catholic Social Services.

"CSS seeks only an accommodation that will allow it to continue serving the children of Philadelphia in a manner consistent with its religious beliefs; it does not seek to impose those beliefs on anyone else," Chief Justice John Roberts wrote in a majority opinion. "The refusal of Philadelphia to contract with CSS for the provision of foster care services unless it agrees to certify same-sex couples as foster parents cannot survive strict scrutiny, and violates the First Amendment.

2021: UNANIMOUS. First Amendment ruling:
“Supreme Court sides with Catholic adoption agency that refuses to work with LGBT couples”
https://www.cnbc.com/2021/06/17/supreme ... uples.html

.. Chief Justice John Roberts wrote in an opinion for a majority of the court that Philadelphia violated the First Amendment by refusing to contract with Catholic Social Services once it learned that the organization would not certify same-sex couples for adoption. ..

- - - - - - -

2011: Devastating, shocking news in Illinois (even for non-Catholics)

RELIGION
“Illinois, Catholic Agencies At Odds Over Gay Adoptions”
July 5, 2011 10:23 AM ET
Heard on “All Things Considered”

i first read about family courts ruling with bias AGAINST Christian homes on this forum, i believe it was RuthG in England, who was a child advocate in courts there. She was retired. (by my memory.)

Organized political blocs do so much damage.
They always begin with some attractive premise ..

i don’t know why the link to the 2011 article is not working. ^^^ the article is still available .. it begins:

“Illinois, Catholic Agencies At Odds Over Gay Adoptions”
July 5, 201110:23 AM ET
Heard on All Things Considered
CHERYL CORLEY

LISTEN· 4:54
4-Minute Listen
Transcript
In Illinois, civil unions for gay couples became legal last month. Now, a battle is brewing over whether faith-based groups must change their practices and help gay couples adopt.

The day after civil unions went into effect in Illinois in June, Chicago's lush, flower-filled Millennium Park was full of music, families, friends and reporters. Circuit court judges conducted civil unions for more than 30 gay and lesbian couples. Illinois Gov. Pat Quinn called it a historic day for Illinois.

"There are all kinds of different families in Illinois, and we understand and love one another. We understand that it is very, very important to have civil rights and civil unions," Quinn says.

But the law allowing civil unions has put the state and some faith-based organizations at odds. Catholic Charities agencies in five Illinois dioceses, which had received state funds to provide foster care and adoption services, only placed children with straight married couples or straight single people who lived alone.

As the civil union law went into effect, Catholic Charities in Rockford, Ill., ended its adoption service over concerns that it would have to place children with same-sex couples or face discrimination lawsuits. Catholic Charities in three other Illinois dioceses put licensing any new prospective parents on hold and sued the state. ..

it continues .. (Quinn was IL DNC governor) ^^
Wayne in Maine said similar happened in Maine.

[temporal1]

Churches and faith-based groups do significant work. (More is needed, secularist groups have tried to push Christians out of their way.) (Closing Catholic adoption services, etc.) Courts have sided with Catholics, but it took time. ^^^

[Falco Underhill]

Abortion didn't prevent churches from already being proactive about this. Some of the states that are set to ban abortions also have the stingiest social safety nets. I hope what you're calling for becomes real.

It’s already real. There are lots of couples waiting to adopt.

Yes, plenty of homes willing to adopt. What we don't have is enough Christian liaisons to help get these children into homes in a timely manner.

Why don't Churches keep an updated list of member couples who are willing to adopt, and then hospitals can keep a registered list of contact phone numbers, or something like that?

[Falco Underhill]

Churches and faith-based groups do significant work. (More is needed, secularist groups have tried to push Christians out of their way.) (Closing Catholic adoption services, etc.) Courts have sided with Catholics, but it took time. ^^^

One positive thing i see coming out of this is Christians being allowed to have a say in government again -- as Christians. Your vote should count, even if it's based in religious belief.

As a Catholic, I've never believed the radical separation of Church and State doctrine as interpreted by modern secularism. The Catholic Church has always regarded that opinion as heresy, anyway.

Some legal experts - including some current US Supreme Court justices - have adopted a legal perspective called "accomadationism" which sounds a little more promising to me.

This is something new to me. Here's a link that talks about it —

https://www.mtsu.edu/first-amendment/ar ... 20religion.

[barnhart]

If a fetus is a person and is aborted won't all these fetuses automatically go to heaven ?
If your answer is 'yes' then isn't it a risk to allow every fetus to be born and perhaps end up in hell ?

This type of thinking comes from over emphasizing the individual aspect of salvation at the expense of a doctrine of the kingdom of heaven. God's purposes are to create a kingdom by calling people out of the kingdoms of this world. When we focus on the individual experience or the method over the greater goal, we fall into error.

[temporal1]

If a fetus is a person and is aborted won't all these fetuses automatically go to heaven ?
If your answer is 'yes' then isn't it a risk to allow every fetus to be born and perhaps end up in hell ?

This type of thinking comes from over emphasizing the individual aspect of salvation at the expense of a doctrine of the kingdom of heaven. God's purposes are to create a kingdom by calling people out of the kingdoms of this world. When we focus on the individual experience or the method over the greater goal, we fall into error.

It strikes me as an example of the ultimate failure of human reasoning run amok.
Purist human reasoning left to its own devices will eventually declare life, itself, is inefficient/inconvenient, thus, why bother?

But God “bothers.” We are not of our own making, that could never be.
God breathes the will+fight to live into each of His creations. Whether plant, animal, human, God instills His design for life!

It’s remarkable, wondrous, mysterious, and not attributable to human reasoning.

[temporal1]

Churches and faith-based groups do significant work. (More is needed, secularist groups have tried to push Christians out of their way.) (Closing Catholic adoption services, etc.) Courts have sided with Catholics, but it took time. ^^^

One positive thing i see coming out of this is Christians being allowed to have a say in government again -- as Christians. Your vote should count, even if it's based in religious belief.

As a Catholic, I've never believed the radical separation of Church and State doctrine as interpreted by modern secularism. The Catholic Church has always regarded that opinion as heresy, anyway.

Some legal experts - including some current US Supreme Court justices - have adopted a legal perspective called "accomadationism" which sounds a little more promising to me.

This is something new to me. Here's a link that talks about it —

https://www.mtsu.edu/first-amendment/ar ... 20religion.

Interesting.
Clearly, purist, rigid separation of church+state devolves quickly.
In the U.S., we witness separation devolving into “rule by atheists, humanists, secularists,” which was never the plan.

Poor results demonstrate, the matter deserves serious rethinking.

[barnhart]

After thinking about this bit, I wonder how likely a Roe overturn actually is. My memory is that Kavanaugh and Gorsuch clearly stated they accept Roe as established precedent and are not looking to undo this type of ruling. Barrette was less committed. I guess we will see.

[temporal1]

After thinking about this bit, I wonder how likely a Roe overturn actually is. My memory is that Kavanaugh and Gorsuch clearly stated they accept Roe as established precedent and are not looking to undo this type of ruling. Barrette was less committed. I guess we will see.

It’s far from decided.
With this blowup, 2 months is more than enough time for evil to be done.

Even if overturned, for profit abortion corporations will continue, hardly wounded.

But the drama queens will have their circus spotlight! Offending to the max.