The withdrawal of troops from Afghanistan

[Ken]

I think he wouldn't have pulled troops out.

Even though he said he was going to have them all out by May?

It’s impossible to say.
The only thing that can be known is, DJT had unpredicted success with averting military violence.
That was not enough for many U.S. voters. Including some COs. So we will never know.

Well, we have his own word and that of his Secretary of State. Is that any good? This was from last fall, leading up to the election.



And this was the GOP platform during the 2020 election

[Ken]

I think it is pretty clear that both Trump and Biden were on the same page with respect to Afghanistan. And I think they were both right. They differed on a lot of policy, but not Afghanistan. Here is Trump last April stating that Biden should stick as close as possible to his May 1st withdrawal date: https://www.businessinsider.com/trump-b ... 2021-4?amp

Former President Donald Trump has praised President Joe Biden's plan to withdraw all remaining US troops from Afghanistan as a "wonderful and positive thing to do," drawing criticism from some Republicans.

Biden on Wednesday formally announced that he planned to withdraw all troops stationed in Afghanistan by September 11, bringing an end to what he called "America's longest war."

Trump praised the decision, but urged the president to pull troops out before the symbolic September 11 deadline, which marks the 20th anniversary of the deadly terrorist attacks that prompted the start of US involvement in a decades-long conflict in Afghanistan.

"Getting out of Afghanistan is a wonderful and positive thing to do. I planned to withdraw on May 1st, and we should keep as close to that schedule as possible," Trump said in a statement Sunday.

And here is Trump last month claiming that he tied Biden's hands and locked him into withdrawing from Afghanistan by drawing down the troops and equipment to such an extent:

[Ernie]

And there is something you are missing but you requested at the onset, you don't want to discuss those matters.

I started you a new thread.

[Grace]

And there is something you are missing but you requested at the onset, you don't want to discuss those matters.

I started you a new thread.

LOL...A thread just for me, I am honored. (sarcasm).

[Josh]

The “Afghan government” was an attempt at creating a U.S. puppet state that basically didn’t exist. Despite claiming to have a 300,000-strong military and being given around $85 billion of military equipment and other aid by the U.S. over the last 20 years, that government has basically ceased to function in a week, against a much less resources group of maybe 70,000-strong in the Taliban.

The U.S. basically picked who the President would be, despite purportedly being in Afghanistan to promote democracy. This President fled the country within days of the American military pulling out.

This is how the end stage of big empires looks. Lots of money is spent. Any failures are blamed on rival politicians at home (Trump) or on minority groups of people (blaming covid on unvaccinated people). Eventually, a key event happens that pulls back the mask, and the empire is revealed as hollow and fake.

The U.S. really lacks the ability to project military force like it once did; the people running the show don’t really fully understand this. For comparison, the USSR started to pull out of Afghanistan in 1998. Within two years, the USSR didn’t exist anymore either.

[Robert]

I think that if President Trump was still in office, the transition would have been slower, but the same end result. I also think he would have put pressure on some other Middle East states through his work on the Abraham Accords. I actually think he would have brought more states into that and it would have been able to put more pressure on the Taliban. He would have also used air power to slow the speed of advance, but I also think that the end would have been close to the same.

People in the Middle East and other countries knew President Trump would hit back. This would have slowed the process. Few are afraid of President Biden. Maybe that will be a long term good thing. Not sure. President Trump was peace through strength. President Biden seems to be peace through inaction. He can be a war hawk, so that may change.

I am sad that the Taliban have taken over the country. Their brand of Islam with Sharia Law is very abusive, but most seem to want it. Maybe they will find a balance and can become a functioning society. I hope so.

The withdrawal ends a 20 year mistake.

[temporal1]

I think that if President Trump was still in office, the transition would have been slower, but the same end result.

I also think he would have put pressure on some other Middle East states through his work on the Abraham Accords.
I actually think he would have brought more states into that and it would have been able to put more pressure on the Taliban.
He would have also used air power to slow the speed of advance, but I also think that the end would have been close to the same.

People in the Middle East and other countries knew President Trump would hit back.
This would have slowed the process.

Few are afraid of President Biden. Maybe that will be a long term good thing. Not sure. President Trump was peace through strength. President Biden seems to be peace through inaction. He can be a war hawk, so that may change.

I am sad that the Taliban have taken over the country. Their brand of Islam with Sharia Law is very abusive, but most seem to want it. Maybe they will find a balance and can become a functioning society. I hope so.

The withdrawal ends a 20 year mistake.

i’m glad to read this. it’s a sort of follow up to your 2018 post i quoted on Page 1 in this thread.
i would differ in that i would not speculate about end results. too many variables in there for me to speculate.

career politicians and the MIC are tight. biden has already bombed Syria. viewtopic.php?f=6&t=3636
so. i’m not expecting any surprises.

DJT surprised.
not supporter or opponent, i was pleasantly surprised. his opponents were dismayed: “he cannot be allowed.”
so, back to SOP.

[appleman2006]

This is a thread to discuss the withdrawal, and only that.
Other matters related to the war, the capability of the Afghan government, and whether you think the US should continue the war, should be discussed elsewhere. If there are things you don't like about Trump or Biden as well as Republicans or Democrats, please discuss those matters elsewhere as well.

Please stick to this very narrow topic. Thank you.

-----------------------------

As I understand it, Former Pres. Trump planned to withdraw troops by May of 2021. Biden extended that to August 2021 in order to give Afghan forces more time to get their act together. Now Biden and his administration are getting the blame for the current chaos. Is there more to the story that I am not understanding?

Its been established practice to kick the can down the road. This cannot be discussed or answered without the background behind it. Otherwise its just pontificating about issues that are irrelevant to the actual cause of the problems. You have scoped the question too narrow to have any educated response other then to say "yes" to the bolded.

I'm wondering what a Trump administration would have done in May, had they still been in power, and would it look a lot different than what we see happening right now under Biden?

I agree that your earlier rules made it impossible to really answer your question but now that you asked it this way I will try. As others have said we have no idea for sure whether Trump would have had a more effective withdrawal but based on his very effective record on foreign policy in 5he four years he was in power I am thinking he might have. It is evident that people like the Taliban were afraid of the tough talking front that Trump put on and I think at the very least they would have waited to make their move until the US had totally pulled their troops and allies from the country. For some reason Biden did not give them any concern to move now, I am not surprised. I was not expecting Biden to be an effective leader but his ineffectiveness has even surprised me.

[appleman2006]

The above post was made before I had witnessed the plane trying to leave the tarmac yesterday. Totally heart wrenching. This could really really get bad. You folks really need a strong leader right now. I hope there is someone that can pick up the pieces because there will be a lot of pieces.

[Grace]

I think that if President Trump was still in office, the transition would have been slower, but the same end result. I also think he would have put pressure on some other Middle East states through his work on the Abraham Accords. I actually think he would have brought more states into that and it would have been able to put more pressure on the Taliban. He would have also used air power to slow the speed of advance, but I also think that the end would have been close to the same.

People in the Middle East and other countries knew President Trump would hit back. This would have slowed the process. Few are afraid of President Biden. Maybe that will be a long term good thing. Not sure. President Trump was peace through strength. President Biden seems to be peace through inaction. He can be a war hawk, so that may change.

I am sad that the Taliban have taken over the country. Their brand of Islam with Sharia Law is very abusive, but most seem to want it. Maybe they will find a balance and can become a functioning society. I hope so.

The withdrawal ends a 20 year mistake.

As much as many people couldn’t stand Trump’s obnoxious bluster and threats, I think that the Taliban had an element of fear of Trump. Especially after he brutally took out Qasem Soleimani. I highly doubt the Taliban sees Biden as a strong leader.

Troop withdrawal was inevitable at some time or the other. However it should NOT have been done before ALL citizens and all Afghan partners and Special Forces who aided the troops, were out of the country. That debacle falls squarely on Biden.