Literacy Rates of High School Graduates

[joshuabgood]

A return to 1950s style discipline isn't the answer. Further, like I mentioned earlier, when you really look at the numbers of the drop-outs and all the marginalized people groups (often but not always Bipoc) the statistics change substantially.

Effective teachers can manage children in any school in the country, including those in NYC.

Having taught everybody from old order Menno's to inner city NYC "failing" middle schools the underlying issues are the same.

Could you explain, then, why NYC schools produce such phenomenally bad results compared to OO Menno schools?

Please point me to any formal studies that you know of. And to make comparison we'd need to be able to disaggregate the data by various factors, social-economic status, etc etc. Anecdotes don't really cut it as I could give you a good variety having worked 14 years in the one context and now entering my 7th year in the CA context which includes the aforementioned groups.

[Josh]

Formal studies, lol

You people will only listen to and trust studies that match the conclusions you want. So it’s a waste of my time to find anything.

Nonetheless there are plenty of analyses out there of OO Menno education, mostly from Canada. The results far outclass the systems offered to kids in poor school districts in America.

[Soloist]

Our school uses the California achievement test and while I don't know if its better then others, I have been told its much more demanding then the Oregon test. Our school does fine on it, but we only go to 10th grade. I would say the quality of writers seems superior and education past that is hit or miss. We have 3 teachers and under 15 students.

[ken_sylvania]

Are you saying the achievement tests our students do in school are not accurate? Our children normally test several grade levels above their current grade. Not in everything, and not all of them, but most of it is above current grade level.

I would ABSOLUTELY say that they are not accurate. There is a huge difference between functional illiteracy and failing a boring no-stakes standardized test you were forced to take in school.

As a teacher I have administered hundreds of these standardized tests over the years. The kids quickly figure out which ones are high-stakes (required for graduation) and which are no-stakes (used for school/district/state data reporting but the results have no effect on the individual child).

I have seen plenty of kids randomly pencil in patterns on the answer sheets, doodle on them rather than taking the test, pencil in obscene or other inappropriate designs on the bubble sheets like swastikas, and so forth. And even for high-stakes tests required to graduate there is a portion of kids who just don't care and blow them off anyway. Maybe they are already failing or planning to drop out or just don't care. You can't MAKE a kid take one of these tests and put out their best effort if they simply don't want to. And many of them just don't want to. That doesn't mean the kid is illiterate. They are just choosing to blow off an annoying test.

There are also plenty of parents these days who are anti-testing and there is a whole parent movement of resisting and undermining standardized testing. For example, here is a whole national parent organization designed around opting-out or undermining standardized testing: https://www.fairtest.org/get-involved/opting-out

So there are probably hundreds of thousands if not millions of kids every year who are perfectly literate but for whatever reason do not pass standardized tests.

That is probably why some of these standardized school tests can have low passing or high failure rates while the functional literacy rate in the US is still very high.

So are you saying that due to the reasons you provide it is likely that a child receiving a sub-standard education would be scoring above their grade level?

[Ken]

So are you saying that due to the reasons you provide it is likely that a child receiving a sub-standard education would be scoring above their grade level?

Not at all. I'm saying that standardized tests are not a good measure of very much, especially if they are simply diagnostic. Public school kids are very over-tested and quickly develop a radar for which tests matter to them and which don't. If it is a test that determines your grade in class then you might make an effort. If it is just some random diagnostic test that the state mandates all students take to track school district progress then you are liable to just blow it off and put your head down or pull our a book from under your desk.

In addition, you have to actually know what they are measuring. I doubt very much any of these standardized ELA tests are actually measuring basic literacy as indicated in the thread topic. They are more likely measuring whether students are at, above, or below grade level on a complicated set of common core ELA standards that don't have much at all to do with basic literacy.

For example, here are some random 10th grade common core ELA standards that are measured on the common core tests

CCSS.ELA-LITERACY.RL.9-10.1
Cite strong and thorough textual evidence to support analysis of what the text says explicitly as well as inferences drawn from the text.

CCSS.ELA-LITERACY.RL.9-10.2
Determine a theme or central idea of a text and analyze in detail its development over the course of the text, including how it emerges and is shaped and refined by specific details; provide an objective summary of the text.

CCSS.ELA-LITERACY.RL.9-10.3
Analyze how complex characters (e.g., those with multiple or conflicting motivations) develop over the course of a text, interact with other characters, and advance the plot or develop the theme.

CCSS.ELA-LITERACY.RL.9-10.6
Analyze a particular point of view or cultural experience reflected in a work of literature from outside the United States, drawing on a wide reading of world literature.

CCSS.ELA-LITERACY.RL.11-12.5
Analyze how an author's choices concerning how to structure specific parts of a text (e.g., the choice of where to begin or end a story, the choice to provide a comedic or tragic resolution) contribute to its overall structure and meaning as well as its aesthetic impact.

Most of these standardized tests, at least at the HS level, are pretty complicated, difficult, and time-consuming to complete. It is no wonder kids blow them off if they have no relevance to their grade in any class or whether or not they can graduate.

[Somebody]

Our children had the California Achievement tests.

One of the causes of disruptive children is from the artificial colors, sweeteners and MSG and other additives in their 'food'.

Another cause is the lack of real nutrition. Omega 3's are VERY important for brain function. Good proteins, low sugar, good fats, real fruits & vegetables, complex carbohydrates are needed to function well.

What are most people eating for breakfast? Sugared cereal. It sends the blood sugar sky rocketing, two hours later the blood sugar crashed, they feel horrible and act out. If they snack, what is the snack? More sugar. What is for lunch? It goes on all day...........and then we wonder why.

[RZehr]

Now we are finding out that our Oregon Governor quietly signed a bill a month ago, that ends reading and math proficiency as a requirement for graduation. And the regional/state/local press doesn't seem really bothered by it whatsoever, simply reporting the facts dutifully and blandly (if even that), and hurriedly moving the news cycle on. Good thing the Governor is a Democrat in a blue state, and not a Republican in a southern state. The press would be going bananas, I think.

Oregon Gov. Kate Brown privately signed a bill last month ending the requirement for high school students to prove proficiency in reading, writing, and arithmetic before graduation.

Brown, a Democrat, did not hold a public signing or issue a press release regarding the passing of Senate Bill 744 on July 14, and the measure, which was approved by lawmakers in June, was not added into the state's legislative database until more than two weeks later on July 29, an unusually quiet approach to enacting legislation, according to the Oregonian.

......The bill, which suspends the proficiency requirements for students for three years, has attracted controversy for at least temporarily suspending academic standards amid the COVID-19 pandemic. Backers argued the existing proficiency levels for math and reading presented an unfair challenge for students who do not test well, and Charles Boyle, the governor's deputy communications director, said the new standards for graduation would aid Oregon's "Black, Latino, Latinx, Indigenous, Asian, Pacific Islander, Tribal, and students of color" in a statement to the Oregonian.

https://www.yahoo.com/now/oregon-govern ... 00667.html

Brilliant. Oregon public high school graduation certificates are now basically participation awards.

[Josh]

Charles Boyle, the governor's deputy communications director, said the new standards for graduation would aid Oregon's "Black, Latino, Latinx, Indigenous, Asian, Pacific Islander, Tribal, and students of color" in a statement to the Oregonian.

One wonders about the mindset of people who think they are serving "students of color" well by not teaching them how to read, write, or do math.

[Ken]

Now we are finding out that our Oregon Governor quietly signed a bill a month ago, that ends reading and math proficiency as a requirement for graduation. And the regional/state/local press doesn't seem really bothered by it whatsoever, simply reporting the facts dutifully and blandly (if even that), and hurriedly moving the news cycle on. Good thing the Governor is a Democrat in a blue state, and not a Republican in a southern state. The press would be going bananas, I think.

Oregon Gov. Kate Brown privately signed a bill last month ending the requirement for high school students to prove proficiency in reading, writing, and arithmetic before graduation.

Brown, a Democrat, did not hold a public signing or issue a press release regarding the passing of Senate Bill 744 on July 14, and the measure, which was approved by lawmakers in June, was not added into the state's legislative database until more than two weeks later on July 29, an unusually quiet approach to enacting legislation, according to the Oregonian.

......The bill, which suspends the proficiency requirements for students for three years, has attracted controversy for at least temporarily suspending academic standards amid the COVID-19 pandemic. Backers argued the existing proficiency levels for math and reading presented an unfair challenge for students who do not test well, and Charles Boyle, the governor's deputy communications director, said the new standards for graduation would aid Oregon's "Black, Latino, Latinx, Indigenous, Asian, Pacific Islander, Tribal, and students of color" in a statement to the Oregonian.

https://www.yahoo.com/now/oregon-govern ... 00667.html

Brilliant. Oregon public high school graduation certificates are now basically participation awards.

They just suspended the standardized testing graduation requirements for 3 years due to Covid while they determine what standards to replace them with.

There are still proficiency requirements to graduate. All public HS graduates in Oregon will still have to take and pass:

4 years of HS English
3 years of HS social studies
3 years of HS math
3 years of HS science.

During that time they will no doubt be taking hundreds of tests in all of those subjects and completing thousands of homework assignments and labs.

Back in the "good old days" that so many here reminisce about there weren't any required standardized tests required for HS graduation. The current requirements that the governor just suspended were put into place by the legislature in 2007, no doubt with a flock of lobbyists from private test companies like Pearson whispering in their ears.

As a teacher I can tell you that standardized testing is always a useless tool for both students and teachers. In my 15 years of teaching I have NEVER ONCE gotten any standardized test results back in a timely enough manner to actually use them for any purpose at all. If you are teaching science, the students take the standardized science test sometime in mid-May and then the test booklets are shipped off to Pearson or ETS or whatever company is processing them and you don't get any results back until maybe the following fall in late September when the student in question is long gone from your classroom and you have a whole new crop of students to teach. So you can't look at the results and say: Hmmm....this student is weak on kinematics, we need to brush up on that. They are long gone and now in a completely different science class and subject.

Do your Mennonite schools follow the same exact curriculum standards, graduation requirements, and testing requirements that you are now criticizing the suspension of in the public schools? Are you following the Common Core ELA and math standards that were the basis for the standardized tests that the governor just suspended for 3 years and are you using those same standardized tests?

[Josh]

Do your Mennonite schools follow the same exact curriculum standards, graduation requirements, and testing requirements that you are now criticizing the suspension of in the public schools? Are you following the Common Core ELA and math standards that were the basis for the standardized tests that the governor just suspended for 3 years and are you using those same standardized tests?

We produce students who can read and do math, and consider it a serious problem if ANY student can't do these things, and it gets caught way before high school - many of us don't do high school at all.

The fact you can graduate a student from GRADE 12 that can't even read or do basic math should make you climb off your high horse and start to think about what the actual, real problem is.