Non-essential church

[Josh]

By the standards of many here, it was wrong in 1525 for Anabaptists to break the law and have church meetings and conduct baptisms.

[RZehr]

I don't think it is wrong to break the law in order to meet in person for church services. Nor do I think it is wrong to temporarily suspend or modify services to respect the government. We could choose to wear masks. We could choose to meet in private. I do not believe it is absolutely necessary for our church services to maintain 100% pre-Covid protocols and practices to worship God as a church. But because there is specific Bible teaching that says to assemble, I firmly believe it is a decision that belongs to the church, and not the government. But we do have some flexibility on the matter. Sometimes in the past we have cancelled church services for various reasons. It's not as if we have taken a position that come hell or high water, meeting in person must take place every single Sunday.

[mike]

I don't think it is wrong to break the law in order to meet in person for church services. Nor do I think it is wrong to temporarily suspend or modify services to respect the government. We could choose to wear masks. We could choose to meet in private. I do not believe it is absolutely necessary for our church services to maintain 100% pre-Covid protocols and practices to worship God as a church. But because there is specific Bible teaching that says to assemble, I firmly believe it is a decision that belongs to the church, and not the government. But we do have some flexibility on the matter. Sometimes in the past we have cancelled church services for various reasons. It's not as if we have taken a position that come hell or high water, meeting in person must take place every single Sunday.

I agree 100% with you here RZehr.

[Josh]

I don't think it is wrong to break the law in order to meet in person for church services. Nor do I think it is wrong to temporarily suspend or modify services to respect the government. We could choose to wear masks. We could choose to meet in private. I do not believe it is absolutely necessary for our church services to maintain 100% pre-Covid protocols and practices to worship God as a church. But because there is specific Bible teaching that says to assemble, I firmly believe it is a decision that belongs to the church, and not the government. But we do have some flexibility on the matter. Sometimes in the past we have cancelled church services for various reasons. It's not as if we have taken a position that come hell or high water, meeting in person must take place every single Sunday.

Unfortunately, the position Alberta, California, New York City, and other places have taken is that church absolutely is banned - regardless of if masks are worn, distancing is practiced, and so on.

Church doesn’t have to happen every Sunday. Shutting it down for half a year whilst strip clubs, liquor stores, and casinos remain open is a different story. It is plain as day that it is government suppression of religion.

[Theophilos]

[video][/video]

[Theophilos]

During times of persecution in the Soviet Union, the authorities used the same system of fines (with made-up reasons like noise complaints, excess of occupancy limits, presence of the children at the services, etc.) They sent a number of pastors to prisons but most of the believers were heavily fined every service with the fines comparable with their monthly wages. Here in North America, it seems that they are adopting the same system. It is not just 20-30 bucks fines, but the ones that would make you figure out how to feed your family during this extremely hard time when many people are losing their jobs. I know many people do not feel comfortable to practice 'online religion' the same way as some people do not like 'online dating', 'online meals', etc. But everybody seems now is forced into online practice of religion and there are no alternatives except being fined. The saddest part is that practicing your own religion is considered non-essential while drinking alcohol and using dope as essential needs. Does not make sense at all. It all reminds the motto of Karl Marx: "Religion is the opium of the people", even him put drug use at the same level. In the current situation practicing religion in person is considered by those in power worse than drug use.

[Theophilos]

Carols signing also banned:

[video][/video]

[silentreader]

I don't think it is wrong to break the law in order to meet in person for church services. Nor do I think it is wrong to temporarily suspend or modify services to respect the government. We could choose to wear masks. We could choose to meet in private. I do not believe it is absolutely necessary for our church services to maintain 100% pre-Covid protocols and practices to worship God as a church. But because there is specific Bible teaching that says to assemble, I firmly believe it is a decision that belongs to the church, and not the government. But we do have some flexibility on the matter. Sometimes in the past we have cancelled church services for various reasons. It's not as if we have taken a position that come hell or high water, meeting in person must take place every single Sunday.

I agree with this. But if church is virtual for months at a time as was the case for us earlier in the year, a sense of disconnect did develop. Assembling together is an important function of the Body. If it is neglected or not permitted for months at a time there can be a negative impact on some individuals. Perhaps my greatest regret is that the ministry of personal caring is limited and/or prohibited. Are we going to be held accountable for that?

[Ernie]

My sense is that many people don't want to change the way they have always done things. They want life to go back to normal.

I look at this as a present distress that will pass in a year or so. Christians have often had distresses throughout the centuries. They got creative. They met outdoors. They met in caves. They met on boats. They met in smaller groups. They wrote letters to each other. They read their letters to each other aloud in their gatherings. They passed letters around within the community and beyond. The church grew and multiplied during these distresses.

Are there in-person things that are allowed that can be done in California, Alberta, and New York to inspire and encourage brothers and sisters? Can a person stand outside someone's window and talk to them? Can two people meet or walk at a public place or rural place and pray together? (I realize that this might not be allowed during stay-at-home phases.) I have yet to hear of anyone who was fined for talking to another person 6' away with a face mask on.

I think a pandemic like this could be one of the best things that could happen to Christians who have become attached to a comfortable, predictable church life. During the temperate months, this pandemic has the potential to encourage the church to spread out and welcome others outside of their ethnic clans into their yards and gatherings. During the winter it takes more creativity. I think this pandemic could have the same effect that persecution had on the early church in the book of Acts and in early Anabaptist history, whenever the people of God were forced to spread out into neighboring areas… but it will only have this effect if we see this pandemic as an opportunity...

Here are a couple articles that I think make some good points.

https://ca.thegospelcoalition.org/colum ... d19-world/

https://www.anabaptists.org/essays/arti ... c-worship/

[Wade]

Here is where we at in BC for at least until January 8th according to https://www2.gov.bc.ca/gov/content/safe ... rants-bars:

In short - no social gatherings, no one coming to you home unless you are single and then max of 2 specific people, no church services (there is an exemption of drive-in services but I see more benefit to Zoom and being able to talk to one another).

Bars, restaurants, recreation facilities can continue on. Professional athletes and dancers are exempt(apparently useless entertainment is essential), and under guidance Yoga, Pilates, Light weightlifting, Adult dance classes, Stretching or strengthening, Tai-Chi are all okay to continue on.

There is also an exemption for City council meetings, Alcoholics Anonymous, Group Support Meetings, and Business meetings up to 50 people. So it is more permissible to go get drunk with bars open and then gather at AA...

Social gatherings
No social gatherings of any size at your residence with anyone other than your household or core bubble. For example:

Do not invite friends or extended family to your household
Do not host gathering outdoors
Do not gather in your backyard
Do not have playdates for children

Core bubble
For most people, their core bubble is their immediate household. An immediate household is a group of people who live in the same dwelling. For example:

If you have a rental suite in your home, the suite is a separate household
If you live in an apartment or house with roommates, you are all members of the same household
For others, including people who live alone, their core bubble may also contain a partner, relative, friend or co-parent who lives in a different household. This should be a maximum of two people outside of those living in your immediate household.

Religious in-person gatherings and worship services are suspended under the order. For example:

Do not attend a service at a church, synagogue, mosque, gurdwara, temple, or other places of worship
Religious services can continue using remote or virtual attendance options, like Zoom or Skype.

You can still visit your place of worship for individual activities such as contemplation or personal prayer.

Gyms and recreation facilities
Gyms and recreation facilities that offer individual workouts and personal training sessions can remain open as long as they have a COVID-19 Safety Plan that is strictly followed.

Sport exemptions
High performance athletes, professional athletes and professional performers like dancers are not included in the order. To qualify as a high performance athlete, you must be:

Identified by the Canadian Sports Institute Pacific as a high performance athlete affiliated with an accredited provincial or national sports organization
Continuing to follow the safety guidelines of your provincial sports organization
Youth extracurricular activities
Structured extracurricular activities and programs for people under 19 years of age can continue to operate with a COVID-19 Safety Plan in place and must be supervised by an adult. These include:

Educational programs
Music
Art
Dance
Drama
Recreational programs

Low intensity group fitness activities
Businesses, recreation centres or other organizations that organize or operate low intensity group fitness activities must temporarily suspend them or move to virtual options, until guidance is developed to allow these activities to resume. These include:

Yoga
Pilates
Light weightlifting
Adult dance classes
Stretching or strengthening
Tai-Chi
Low intensity fitness activities do not cause a sustained and accelerated rate of breathing and do not involve close contact with other people.

Funerals, weddings and baptisms

Funerals, weddings and baptisms may proceed with a limited number of people and a COVID-19 Safety Plan in place. You can have a maximum of 10 people attend, including the officiant.


Review BC Centre for Disease Control (BCCDC) information on event planning
Receptions associated with funerals, weddings or baptisms are not allowed at any location, that includes:


Inside or outside homes
Any public or community-based venues

Formal meetings

The order does not restrict formal meetings. They can continue to operate with COVID-19 safety protocols and a maximum of 50 people in attendance. This includes:

City council meetings
Alcoholics Anonymous
Group support meetings
Business meetings
It is recommended that virtual meetings be held as much as possible.