Who speaks for the black community?

[Bootstrap]

the organized political bloc does not resonate, it’s organized, and political; it’s not human. it exploits and divides. it’s not first or unique. just one more. best avoided.

I completely agree.

So how do we listen to things that the vast majority of black Americans tell us are true about their experience without shouting it down or distracting with political messaging?

Would you like to take some of the poll results in this thread and speak to them? If this is what the vast majority of black Americans think and feel about their experiences, what does that tell us as Christians? Compassion is a pretty important word in the New Testament.

[temporal1]

If this graph accurately represents the views of white people and black people, doesn't this tell us that many black people will get frustrated trying to even tell many white people what they think and feel?

And perhaps that should tell us that we need to try harder to listen.

I don't know what "justice" means if we don't want better than this.

[img]https://www.pewresearch.org/wp-content/ ... ce_04.pngg]

if someone new approached me saying, “hello. i was studying charts+graphs, so i know how you feel,” things would begin on very awkward footing, if at all.

as it is, i’m pretty sure i’m profiled for lots of different presumptions, based on public narratives.
it’s really not endearing.

i presume, if i don’t enjoy being type-cast, neither do others.

i don’t attempt to respond to media-determined+chosen national narratives.

i meet all people pretty much the same. one on one, listening for their interests and their conclusions, then respond as considerately and honestly as i’m able. it works well.

i am encouraged by the frequency i meet others of faith in Jesus. not a chosen media narrative.

[Josh]

The last poll Boot posted simply shows there isn’t a consensus at all on these things, and that people of the same race don’t all think alike.

[Robert]

So how do we listen to things that the vast majority of black Americans tell us are true about their experience without shouting it down or distracting with political messaging?

Experience is as much perception as reality. The facts show their perception is skewed. So do we validate the skewed perception or state the facts?

[Bootstrap]

So how do we listen to things that the vast majority of black Americans tell us are true about their experience without shouting it down or distracting with political messaging?

Experience is as much perception as reality. The facts show their perception is skewed. So do we validate the skewed perception or state the facts?

Are you seriously saying that black people are not qualified to speak for themselves, have their own opinions and feelings about what they experience, and teach us from their experience? And you are?

And there's no chance that our perception is skewed, perhaps because we simply don't know that much about how other people live and what they experience? Perhaps because of too much exposure to highly political information sources that are generally pretty negative about black people and their concerns? Do black people get to tell us we have no idea what we are talking about when we talk about our own experiences? Will we listen if they do?

The amount of effort that goes into shutting our ears is telling sometimes. Black people hear that.

[Robert]

Are you seriously saying that black people are not qualified to speak for themselves

No and this verifies what I struggle with so much talking to you. You do not read what I say, you decide what I say and come at me with your distortion that you have extremed.

[Bootstrap]

Are you seriously saying that black people are not qualified to speak for themselves

No and this verifies what I struggle with so much talking to you. You do not read what I say, you decide what I say and come at me with your distortion that you have extremed.

I'm having a similar struggle. Whatever you say in this thread, it is never to take up the themes of what black people are saying in polls, and it does not embrace what they are saying as valid. That really comes across as extreme to me. And at some point, I have to start asking what it means.

Before discussing whether their perception is skewed or not, could we at least start by carefully reading what these polls are telling us about what large majorities of black Americans are telling us about their experience? Please?

Here's a hunch. Several people have mentioned in various threads that they have friends who actually (!!!SHOCK!!!) think they are racist. Could it be because when someone speaks sympathetically about the concerns of black people, lots of energy goes into trying to shut down the conversation, often using memes from politicized channels? Even if you are not racist, doing this comes across that way to a lot of people. If people in your life are saying this to you, learning to approach this differently might really change the conversation.

[Josh]

I think Robert is saying that actual facts supported by evidence should be more important than asking groups of people how they feel. Of course, people’s feelings are important, and if some people feel targeted or mistreated, we should care about their feelings.

But reality might be they aren’t mistreated at all; in that case, we need to manage their feelings, but it will be pointless to try to change the reality on the ground. Instead, perhaps better education is a good idea including how to interact with law enforcement, demilitarising law enforcement, and enabling local communities and leaders to self police persistent troublemakers instead of relying on outsider cops to come in once there’s a crisis.

[joshuabgood]

But reality might be they aren’t mistreated at all; in that case, we need to manage their feelings...

Wow...smh

No, we don't "need to manage their feelings." Black people know when they are experiencing racism and negative stereotypes. They dont need white people to tell them. They are intelligent and thoughtful people that are just as bright and rational as anyone else. Your post has a very patriarchal and condescending tone.

[Josh]

But reality might be they aren’t mistreated at all; in that case, we need to manage their feelings...

Wow...smh

No, we don't "need to manage their feelings." Black people know when they are experiencing racism and negative stereotypes. They dont need white people to tell them. They are intelligent and thoughtful people that are just as bright and rational as anyone else. Your post has a very patriarchal and condescending tone.

Except there isn’t some universal consensus where all blacks people think the exact same thoughts and have the same opinions.

What do the facts and data say? If I did what George Floyd did, I’d be likely to end up dead too, particularly if I were going up against the Minneapolis PD. That doesn’t make it right, but it has nothing to do with being white or black.

The polls and surveys in question are about feelings, not about actual hard data about what actually happens. So which are we discussing in this thread? There is no universal fact about “All black people agree that X” or “feel that X”.