Minimum wage: how much is too much?

[Wade]

So what is the better solution? Work to make existing neighborhoods safer and improve public schools? Or pave over productive urban farmland to build $700,000 homes on 3/4 acre lots?

I grant you the situation is more grim in some of the crumbling rust-belt cities in your part of the world. I have a cousin who is in real estate in suburban Columbus. She buys urban homes in places like Dayton for $10k and flips them. Which seems ridiculous to me as that is the price of an average used car. But I guess it is working out as she hasn't gone broke yet.

I have no ability to improve public schools, but I do what I can for private schools I’m involved with.

I can’t exactly make existing neighbourhoods safer, particularly when George Soros is funding defunding the police and getting DAs elected who won’t prosecute crime. When it’s open season to smash windows and burn down buildings, we’re going to get more unsafe neighbourhoods, not less.

I guess I'm just not as willing to give up on and "throw away" poorer neighborhoods and the people who live in them as you are.

I think this is a blind spot for many American Christians. They are willing to invest in missions and development projects in places like Haiti. But ignore communities in their own back yard.

I have an ex-addict/ex-drug dealer/ ex-prostitue bodyguard who has spent time in prison living on my property with his commonlaw partner and two children. He's clean while hear but if he leaves for to long he admitted to getting drunk last week... It's sad I've spent much time ministering to needs in the roughest part of town and it seems the only way they seem to move forward is actually by getting away from all the temptations. We are not ignoring these people but when the cost of living is so high and your trying to help someone move forward in being able to buy a home to provide for their own family while charging them as little rent as possible and scrapping by yourself - while you guys say we have it easy or that if we are struggling we'd just die in a third world country, or that ultras get excommunicated for having such people around... Ha... What in the world am I doing here again...

[Ken]

How are you investing in these neighborhoods? Our church meets in such a neighborhood and I'm looking for ways to further invest as well.

My wife and I have attended several churches in underprivileged neighborhoods. But in addition to that....

I've taught in several high-poverty schools in both TX and WA.
I helped found and work on community gardens in underserved neighborhoods
I volunteered on various park cleanup and renovation projects
I currently volunteer to do college admissions counseling for immigrant and first-generation students trying to navigate the college admissions process
I volunteered to work on renovating the former Paul Quinn College campus (historically black college in Waco) to convert into a community-run charter school. I'm normally skeptical of most charter schools as many are fraudulent operations run but grifters. But this is a good one: https://www.rapoportacademy.org/about-us
I volunteered for various arts fairs and other community events and attended a bunch more and have generally spent a lot of time and money visiting shops and restaurants and food trucks and such to invest my dollars in poor and inner-city small businesses instead of suburban corporate chains.

My wife has spent most of her medical career working in public health clinics in high-poverty areas and has done endless community public health outreach and training of volunteers and such, mostly in the Spanish-speaking immigrant community. She now runs a Spanish-language clinic unit in a high-poverty area.

We have also gotten our kids involved in various other volunteer activities such as English language tutoring for Central American migrants, volunteering at food banks and women's shelters, neighborhood cleanup days, etc., etc.

[Josh]

In Ken’s world, “facilitating unskilled immigration” apparently counts as helping make impoverished neighbourhoods better.

One wonders how well someone will do in college who needs special help just to fill out an admissions form.

Oh, and attending church in an “underprivileged neighbourhood”. By that standard, I’ve helped too - I’ve lived, worked, and even attended church in “underprivileged neighbourhoods”. I’m a modern day Blessed Mother Theresa!

[Ken]

In Ken’s world, “facilitating unskilled immigration” apparently counts as helping make impoverished neighbourhoods better.

One wonders how well someone will do in college who needs special help just to fill out an admissions form.

Oh, and attending church in an “underprivileged neighbourhood”. By that standard, I’ve helped too - I’ve lived, worked, and even attended church in “underprivileged neighbourhoods”. I’m a modern day Blessed Mother Theresa!

I don't denigrate your life choices Josh. I'm not sure why you feel compelled to attack mine. I was merely providing an honest answer to GaryK

You have frequently expressed your disdain and opposition to higher education on this forum so I wouldn't expect you to have any idea what the challenges are to putting together a successful application to a highly competitive college. If you have a student who has to work 40 hours/week every evening and weekend to help her single mother pay the rent and support her younger siblings, how does she compete against wealthy applicants who can point to an endless list of volunteer activities, overseas travel experiences, school leadership positions, and athletic awards they have won? How does she construct and present her application portfolio to compete against wealthy kids who's parents can hire admissions counselors and pay thousands of dollars to massage their application essays and portfolios? What are admissions officers REALLY looking for? How do you best present and highlight your strengths and stand out among thousands of other applicants? It is not so easy as you seem to think.

Or maybe she should just "know her place" and spend the rest of her life working in the local fields or factories for minimum wage?

[Wade]

On a deeper level every person I know that is struggling and/or in the poor parts of town aren't excited about volunteers and and people coming into their neighborhood - we will find them grateful but for people that seem rich to come in and help without coming down to their level with them just can feel like you did your good deed for the day and now you can feel good about yourself as you go back to your nice place while they continue around the filth. People don't want to be justification for you to feel good about yourself because they are doing poorly and you came and volunteered. People need a friend, someone they can call on, someone who will sit down with them in personal relationship that isn't their to "teach" them as much as come along side. My advice from years visiting the slums stop volunteering, stop doing missionary work, and stop evangelizing until the people see your face regularly enough to recognize you and know who you are - if your not a regular you can just come across as self righteous and demeaning by "helping". And think that is the problem with people who are doing well financially trying to give advice sometimes. Most sincere people don't want your riches or luxuries they want a stable happy social environment where they are loved - that is what Christians have to offer.

[Ken]

On a deeper level every person I know that is struggling and/or in the poor parts of town aren't excited about volunteers and and people coming into their neighborhood - we will find them grateful but for people that seem rich to come in and help without coming down to their level with them just can feel like you did your good deed for the day and now you can feel good about yourself as you go back to your nice place while they continue around the filth. People don't want to be justification for you to feel good about yourself because they are doing poorly and you came and volunteered. People need a friend, someone they can call on, someone who will sit down with them in personal relationship that isn't their to "teach" them as much as come along side. My advice from years visiting the slums stop volunteering, stop doing missionary work, and stop evangelizing until the people see your face regularly enough to recognize you and know who you are - if your not a regular you can just come across as self righteous and demeaning by "helping". And think that is the problem with people who are doing well financially trying to give advice sometimes. Most sincere people don't want your riches or luxuries they want a stable happy social environment where they are loved - that is what Christians have to offer.

Maybe so.

On the other hand, I have never just shown up anyplace out of the blue. I have only ever responded to local organizers who say things like "we are going to organize a park cleanup day on Saturday. You interested in coming and maybe bringing some of your students to help?" Or "we need volunteers to help paint classrooms in the new wing we are renovating" Or "we need someone to help man the student photography booth at the street arts fair this weekend." That sort of thing. I don't go around trying to "help" random people I might encounter on the street.

[GaryK]

How are you investing in these neighborhoods? Our church meets in such a neighborhood and I'm looking for ways to further invest as well.

My wife and I have attended several churches in underprivileged neighborhoods. But in addition to that....

I've taught in several high-poverty schools in both TX and WA.
I helped found and work on community gardens in underserved neighborhoods
I volunteered on various park cleanup and renovation projects
I currently volunteer to do college admissions counseling for immigrant and first-generation students trying to navigate the college admissions process
I volunteered to work on renovating the former Paul Quinn College campus (historically black college in Waco) to convert into a community-run charter school. I'm normally skeptical of most charter schools as many are fraudulent operations run but grifters. But this is a good one: https://www.rapoportacademy.org/about-us
I volunteered for various arts fairs and other community events and attended a bunch more and have generally spent a lot of time and money visiting shops and restaurants and food trucks and such to invest my dollars in poor and inner-city small businesses instead of suburban corporate chains.

My wife has spent most of her medical career working in public health clinics in high-poverty areas and has done endless community public health outreach and training of volunteers and such, mostly in the Spanish-speaking immigrant community. She now runs a Spanish-language clinic unit in a high-poverty area.

We have also gotten our kids involved in various other volunteer activities such as English language tutoring for Central American migrants, volunteering at food banks and women's shelters, neighborhood cleanup days, etc., etc.

Thanks. I sort of figured those might be some of the types of things you are involved in. Our focus so far has been more geared toward interacting with people rather than working on projects in the neighborhood. Of course Covid sort of threw a wrench in the gears the last 1-1/2 years.

[Ken]

How are you investing in these neighborhoods? Our church meets in such a neighborhood and I'm looking for ways to further invest as well.

My wife and I have attended several churches in underprivileged neighborhoods. But in addition to that....

I've taught in several high-poverty schools in both TX and WA.
I helped found and work on community gardens in underserved neighborhoods
I volunteered on various park cleanup and renovation projects
I currently volunteer to do college admissions counseling for immigrant and first-generation students trying to navigate the college admissions process
I volunteered to work on renovating the former Paul Quinn College campus (historically black college in Waco) to convert into a community-run charter school. I'm normally skeptical of most charter schools as many are fraudulent operations run but grifters. But this is a good one: https://www.rapoportacademy.org/about-us
I volunteered for various arts fairs and other community events and attended a bunch more and have generally spent a lot of time and money visiting shops and restaurants and food trucks and such to invest my dollars in poor and inner-city small businesses instead of suburban corporate chains.

My wife has spent most of her medical career working in public health clinics in high-poverty areas and has done endless community public health outreach and training of volunteers and such, mostly in the Spanish-speaking immigrant community. She now runs a Spanish-language clinic unit in a high-poverty area.

We have also gotten our kids involved in various other volunteer activities such as English language tutoring for Central American migrants, volunteering at food banks and women's shelters, neighborhood cleanup days, etc., etc.

Thanks. I sort of figured those might be some of the types of things you are involved in. Our focus so far has been more geared toward interacting with people rather than working on projects in the neighborhood. Of course Covid sort of threw a wrench in the gears the last 1-1/2 years.

I actually tend to believe that it often isn't so much what you do as just being present and helping claim back public spaces. Crime, drug dealing, and such tends to thrive in abandoned spaces, not those being actively used and thriving. Just showing up, patronizing local businesses, that sort of thing is often as useful as anything else.

[Josh]

In Ken’s world, “facilitating unskilled immigration” apparently counts as helping make impoverished neighbourhoods better.

One wonders how well someone will do in college who needs special help just to fill out an admissions form.

Oh, and attending church in an “underprivileged neighbourhood”. By that standard, I’ve helped too - I’ve lived, worked, and even attended church in “underprivileged neighbourhoods”. I’m a modern day Blessed Mother Theresa!

I don't denigrate your life choices Josh. I'm not sure why you feel compelled to attack mine. I was merely providing an honest answer to GaryK

You have frequently expressed your disdain and opposition to higher education on this forum so I wouldn't expect you to have any idea what the challenges are to putting together a successful application to a highly competitive college. If you have a student who has to work 40 hours/week every evening and weekend to help her single mother pay the rent and support her younger siblings, how does she compete against wealthy applicants who can point to an endless list of volunteer activities, overseas travel experiences, school leadership positions, and athletic awards they have won? How does she construct and present her application portfolio to compete against wealthy kids who's parents can hire admissions counselors and pay thousands of dollars to massage their application essays and portfolios? What are admissions officers REALLY looking for? How do you best present and highlight your strengths and stand out among thousands of other applicants? It is not so easy as you seem to think.

Or maybe she should just "know her place" and spend the rest of her life working in the local fields or factories for minimum wage?

lol

I used to spend days sitting in the office of the director of admissions at an upper-tier university back when I was designing moving the admissions advising process from all paper forms to an online one.

They had a poster board with photos and other materials that got mailed on with applications. (Generally, all of this extracurricular stuff was ignored.) The main thing they cared about was SAT/ACT scores.

[Ken]

In Ken’s world, “facilitating unskilled immigration” apparently counts as helping make impoverished neighbourhoods better.

One wonders how well someone will do in college who needs special help just to fill out an admissions form.

Oh, and attending church in an “underprivileged neighbourhood”. By that standard, I’ve helped too - I’ve lived, worked, and even attended church in “underprivileged neighbourhoods”. I’m a modern day Blessed Mother Theresa!

I don't denigrate your life choices Josh. I'm not sure why you feel compelled to attack mine. I was merely providing an honest answer to GaryK

You have frequently expressed your disdain and opposition to higher education on this forum so I wouldn't expect you to have any idea what the challenges are to putting together a successful application to a highly competitive college. If you have a student who has to work 40 hours/week every evening and weekend to help her single mother pay the rent and support her younger siblings, how does she compete against wealthy applicants who can point to an endless list of volunteer activities, overseas travel experiences, school leadership positions, and athletic awards they have won? How does she construct and present her application portfolio to compete against wealthy kids who's parents can hire admissions counselors and pay thousands of dollars to massage their application essays and portfolios? What are admissions officers REALLY looking for? How do you best present and highlight your strengths and stand out among thousands of other applicants? It is not so easy as you seem to think.

Or maybe she should just "know her place" and spend the rest of her life working in the local fields or factories for minimum wage?

lol

I used to spend days sitting in the office of the director of admissions at an upper-tier university back when I was designing moving the admissions advising process from all paper forms to an online one.

They had a poster board with photos and other materials that got mailed on with applications. (Generally, all of this extracurricular stuff was ignored.) The main thing they cared about was SAT/ACT scores.

Yeah? You are out of date then and any applicant relying on your advice to focus on SAT/ACT scores would be in trouble. This year most colleges and universities abandoned their reliance on the SAT/ACT and some states like CA no longer even accept them.