Russia Invades Ukraine 2022

Things that are not part of politics happening presently and how we approach or address it as Anabaptists.
Szdfan

Re: Russia Invades Ukraine 2022

Post by Szdfan »

temporal1 wrote: ↑Sun May 01, 2022 12:30 pm
As I’ve said over and over, I think a negotiated peace (i.e. diplomacy) will largely be determined by the conditions on the ground. As long as both sides think they can win, there isn’t going to be a peace deal.

The possibility that this war move outside Ukraine and provoke WWIII is scary.

Outside divine intervention, i could not use the word “peace” in this situation, i would be glad for tentative resolution.
The rhetoric and history on all sides prevents dreams of immediate peace.

WWIII is really up to the U.S.; biden-harris-pelosi are up for it. from their armchairs, anyway.
i don’t find it scary as much as dismal. and infuriating. my fears+prayers are replaced with growing disgust/anger.

The more talk ramps up, the more likely military volunteers will decline, then increased push for draft talk, females to register.

i hope Z is getting a good first-hand look at what he’s dealing with here. aged+incompetent legacy politicians.
are we destined to see this vibrant enthusiastic man become a grey haired depressed 80 year old championing a destroyed peoples+land, pawns between big boys? that’s what becomes of protracted wars/military conflicts.

DJT counseled Z to find a way to get along with Russia. wise counsel.

to pretend that Z is in control of anything is a stretch. he is in an untenable situation. he has no control, no way out.
he+Ukraine just happen to be in the wrong place. the Japanese resort to Seppuku. :-|

Z could walk away and turn to God. God always offers His way, in every situation. As you know.
Do you understand why many countries in the former Eastern Bloc (i.e. the Baltics, Poland, Romania, Ukraine, etc.) have looked to the West since the collapse of the Soviet Union? They don't trust Russia. Russia has long acted as an imperial power even prior to the Soviet Union, bullying and occupying its neighbors. The Russian Empire annexed large parts of Poland in the 18th Century. Prior to WWII, the Soviet Union carved up Poland with the Nazis and annexed Brest-Litovsk (today Belarus). After WWII, the Soviet Union annexed Lviv. Why do you think countries which were occupied by the USSR for almost fifty years look to ally themselves with the West?

The West of course isn't pure and doesn't have pure motives, but it's not the US that has declared Ukraine a fictitious country. It's not the US that annexed Crimea and supported separatist forces in Donetsk and Ukraine. It's not NATO that has invaded Ukraine with a brutal war of attrition. So while I'm of course aware of the US's hypocrisies in this conflict and around the world, I also reject the notion that Russia's and the West's actions in Ukraine are at the moment morally equivalent.

Russia is reportedly forcing the occupied city and region of Kherson to switch from Ukrainian hryvnia to Russian roubles. The Ukrainians allege that the Russians are planning on holding a "referendum" in mid-May to turn Kherson into a "statelet" similar to Donetsk and Lugansk. In other words, the Russians are attempting "to scrub a part of the country clean of its national identity and embed it in Moscow’s sphere of influence." Approximately half of the population of the Kherson region has fled because they don't want to be a part of Russia or under its sphere of influence.

I don't think accepting weapons from the West to defend themselves against Russia was that hard of a decision for Zelinsky to make. In fact, Zelinsky is on the record criticizing NATO for not providing more weapons or the no-fly zone. He is in an untenable situation, but giving Russia what it wants is not a solution either.
0 x
Szdfan

Re: Russia Invades Ukraine 2022

Post by Szdfan »

The war in Ukraine is a catastrophe. It's not surprising that when the stakes are so high, neither side is able to come to an agreement.
0 x
temporal1

Re: Russia Invades Ukraine 2022

Post by temporal1 »

Szdfan wrote: ↑Sun May 01, 2022 2:13 pm The war in Ukraine is a catastrophe.
It's not surprising that when the stakes are so high, neither side is able to come to an agreement.
The stakes are high, motivation to find resolution should be #1 priority.
Because prevention over years was not taken seriously. Not by U.S. presidents, not by NATO.

2019, DJT gave Z sage advice when he counseled to find a way to get along with Russia.

After the invasion, the world’s diplomats were ignored, Russian diplomats sent away from the U.S., nothing but “fire” as a result.
Page 85:
DanZ:
I am generally not in favor of trying to put out a fire with gasoline.


i am ashamed, dismayed, disgusted.
0 x
temporal1

Re: Russia Invades Ukraine 2022

Post by temporal1 »

Dan Z wrote: ↑Fri Mar 18, 2022 2:02 pm
Josh wrote: ↑Fri Mar 18, 2022 1:30 pm
Dan Z wrote: ↑Fri Mar 18, 2022 1:02 pm For everyone's sake, I would love to see this invasion "run out of its stockpile of missiles."
Since we are Americans, perhaps we should instead love to see our nation run out of missiles.
Instead, America is supplying munitions and missiles to the Ukraine military. Do you think this is morally acceptable?
I am generally not in favor of trying to put out a fire with gasoline.
🔥
0 x
Szdfan

Re: Russia Invades Ukraine 2022

Post by Szdfan »

temporal1 wrote: ↑Sun May 01, 2022 3:15 pm 2019, DJT gave Z sage advice when he counseled to find a way to get along with Russia.
DJT tried to exploit Zelensky by withholding military aid so he could get political dirt on Biden.
After the invasion, the world’s diplomats were ignored, Russian diplomats sent away from the U.S., nothing but “fire” as a result.
Are you talking about the US expelling Russian diplomats from the US or about the negotiations between Russia and Ukraine? I haven't seen anything that states that the US has been directly involved in these negotiations.

If you're referring to the expulsion of Russian diplomats from the US -- that's not nothing, but it's not really throwing gasoline on fire either. It happens with more frequency than you'd think. For example, DJT expelled 60 Russian diplomats in 2018 and closed the consulate in Seattle in retaliation for the poisoning of former Russian spy Sergei Skripal and his daughter, Yulia, in Salisbury, UK by the FSB. Russia retaliated by expelling 60 American diplomats.

https://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way ... in-seattle

So expelling diplomats is a big deal, but most of the time it doesn't end up in a shooting war.

Russian-US relationships are extremely bad right now, but that's because of the situation in general.
0 x
Szdfan

Re: Russia Invades Ukraine 2022

Post by Szdfan »

So a small bit of good news.

About 100 women and children are being evacuated from Azovstal steel mill in Maruipol, where a thousand civilians had been hiding during the last couple of weeks.
An evacuation of civilians from Mariupol was underway on Sunday as women and children confined to bunkers beneath a sprawling steel plant started to make their way to safety, according to Ukrainian officials and the United Nations.

President Volodymyr Zelensky said that about 100 civilians were being evacuated from the Azovstal factory and are heading to a “controlled area.”
Russia effectively controls Maruipol and the human cost has been astronomical as indiscriminate Russian shelling leveled the city:

https://www.nytimes.com/2022/05/01/worl ... d=url-copy
The Mariupol City Council said Sunday in a message on Telegram that the evacuation of civilians in other parts of the city would be delayed until Monday, for security reasons. Before the war, some 450,000 people lived in the port city. There are now estimated to be around 100,000 people living in the ruins of the destroyed metropolis.

Ukrainian officials have said more than 20,000 civilians have been killed and have accused the Russians of digging mass graves to hide the extent of the slaughter.
0 x
temporal1

Re: Russia Invades Ukraine 2022

Post by temporal1 »

Robert might delete this CNN video, it’s the only one i can find now that shows DJT encouraging Z to find resolution with Russia.
Viewing requires ignoring Z’s face. All “reports” do NOT ignore his face, but, instead, reporters jump to SPECULATE what Z was thinking, which is a grave error. Reporters are NOT mind readers. No one should accept their interpretations as fact.

My question for Z is:
Who else was advising you then, and what was their advice?

As a stand-alone 15-30 seconds, DJT gives Z great advice: PREVENT VIOLENT CONFLICT.
i don’t care about what else was going on then. i 100% agree with this advice: PREVENT VIOLENT CONFLICT with Russia.
Further, i believe DJT delivered the brief important message in diplomatic terms.

i understand, the media will NOT “give an inch” to DJT for any positives, at all. They incessantly talk over him, drowning him out,
if not censoring him. Only low grade people who know they haven’t a leg to stand on behave that way.

2019 / Within the first 20-30 seconds, DJT advises Z:


There has not been 1 word of resolution out of the U.S.; various hawkish words from biden have been quickly retracted by his handlers. From Day 1, it’s been unrelenting escalation. i’m ashamed.

The U.S. seems content for Ukraine to be “the place” to battle it out with Russia. It’s handy. For the U.S.

Z may be wondering if he chose the right path. i do not expect to know. maybe if i live long enough.
0 x
Grace
Posts: 4693
Joined: Wed Jun 12, 2019 5:26 pm
Location: Pennsylvania
Affiliation: Mennonite

Re: Russia Invades Ukraine 2022

Post by Grace »

Szdfan wrote: ↑Sun May 01, 2022 3:43 pm
DJT tried to exploit Zelensky by withholding military aid so he could get political dirt on Biden.
Not defending Trump, but there probably was and still is lots of dirt to be had. Oddly enough Hunter Biden made millions off of the largest Ukrainian oil and gas company (which 10% went to Joe). And now Joe Biden is returning the favor in billions.
0 x
temporal1

Re: Russia Invades Ukraine 2022

Post by temporal1 »

Grace wrote: ↑Sun May 01, 2022 5:01 pm Not defending Trump, but there probably was and still is lots of dirt to be had.

Oddly enough Hunter Biden made millions off of the largest Ukrainian oil and gas company (which 10% went to Joe).
And now Joe Biden is returning the favor in billions.
pocketing personal profits, while returning favors with taxpayer dollars.
career politicians do not use their own money, they use the public treasury as their personal petty cash drawer.

i’m pretty sure the video is on this forum, in prior discussions of gross misconduct, do you happen to have the infamous clip of VICE PRESIDENT biden arrogantly threatening to withhold U.S. Foreign Aid?
0 x
temporal1

Re: Russia Invades Ukraine 2022

Post by temporal1 »

temporal1 wrote: ↑Sun May 01, 2022 5:26 pm
Grace wrote: ↑Sun May 01, 2022 5:01 pm Not defending Trump, but there probably was and still is lots of dirt to be had.

Oddly enough Hunter Biden made millions off of the largest Ukrainian oil and gas company (which 10% went to Joe).
And now Joe Biden is returning the favor in billions.
pocketing personal profits, while returning favors with taxpayer dollars.
career politicians do not use their own money, they use the public treasury as their personal petty cash drawer.

i’m pretty sure the video is on this forum, in prior discussions of gross misconduct, do you happen to have the infamous clip of VICE PRESIDENT biden arrogantly threatening to withhold U.S. Foreign Aid?

This has the clip i was remembering, i don’t recall this source/presentation:

Vice President / “biden forced Ukraine to fire prosecutor” (or threatened loss of $1B in U.S. aid)


This is dated Jan 2018, but that date can’t be correct. ^^
0 x
Post Reply