Russia Invades Ukraine 2022

[Josh]

This war is more extensively documented than other previous wars because of technology and the fact that the shifting boundaries and front lines of this war have enabled investigators access to crime scenes on a near real-time basis. Victims of German, Russian, or Japanese war crimes in WW2 often had to wait years, if ever, to be in a position to tell their stories. In addition,

This war has had more fake, made-up CGI stuff than any war before.

[temporal1]

Alleged definition
ə-lĕjd, ə-lĕjĭd

So declared, but without proof or legal conviction.
The alleged assassin.

The definition of alleged is some claim or something of which you should be wary and unconvinced.
An example of something that is alleged is a new drug that is advertised to help lose weight instantly.

The definition of alleged is something that has been stated but not necessarily confirmed.
An example of someone who is alleged is person who has been arrested for a crime who has not yet been through the process of trial.

Represented as existing or as being as described but not so proved; supposed.
An alleged conspiracy; an alleged traitor; an alleged victim of a crime.

Called by this term, but perhaps improperly so; so-called.
His alleged friends.

https://www.yourdictionary.com/alleged

Time doesn’t matter.
Whether the accused is caught+brought to trial doesn’t matter. It’s alleged until proven in court.

(True experience) - My daughter was brutally raped as a new freshman in college. She knows what happened. i 100% believe her.
She’s never named the university football player to me or anyone. i 100% believe her.
Legally, this is an alleged crime that happened 20+ years ago. i would be glad if she named him and faced the matter. i believe she has buried it to the best of her ability. (Not that i want a big blow-up, i don’t believe it would blow up.) It’s ‘way too common.
i would like her to address it and process it on a personal level.

Some alleged WWII war criminals, were found and brought to trial decades later. Alleged until brought to trial.
Time doesn’t matter.

Just because reports are credible, and/or popular, and/or wanted, does not replace due process.
Many alleged crimes, in war and/or peace, are never identified, never litigated, for various reasons.

Many allegations are very credible. They remain allegations until/unless proven in court.
i did not make this up. not my rules. not difficult rules.

It’s not difficult to include the word “alleged” in descriptions where it belongs. It’s more accurate.
It lends increased credibility to writers. (i recommend it.)

Accuse away! Make an effort to be honest that accusations are allegations, until proven otherwise.
Unproven, unsubstantiated accusations can lead to cases of defamation. (Sandmann and Rittenhouse are notable examples.)

Josh:
This war has had more fake, made-up CGI stuff than any war before.

There’s an audience that craves it. $$$$

[Ken]

According to your worldview, Russia invaded and then immediately had its forces attempting to conduct as many impregnations as possible. Do you understand how ridiculous that is to claim that?

It isn't my world view. It is the consensus world view that Russia is engaged in widespread war crimes and human rights violations including rape and murder. I'm sorry that reality is infringing on your previous fantasy that Russia was only protecting the good citizens of the Donbass who wanted to be free from gay marriages forced on them by the liberal government in Kyiv.

Here is the conservative National Review from today: https://www.nationalreview.com/corner/u ... -pregnant/

Ukrainian Official Details Three Rape Cases; One 14-Year-Old Victim Pregnant

A Ukrainian official alleged in a post on Telegram earlier today that Russian troops raped civilians, some as young as 11 and 14 years old, during their occupation of the Kyiv region in March.

“A 14-year-old girl was raped by 5 occupying men. She is pregnant now. Bucha,” wrote Lyudmyla Denisova, Ukraine’s ombudsperson for human rights, referring to the Kyiv suburb where Russian forces carried out horrific atrocities.

“An 11-year old boy was raped in front of his mother — she was tied to a chair to watch,” Denisova wrote, of another case in Bucha.

“A 20-year-old woman, raped by three occupiers in all possible ways at once. Irpen.”

Bucha and Irpin were both liberated by Ukrainian forces during a counteroffensive in late March.

According to eyewitness accounts, evidence collected by Ukrainian investigators, phone calls intercepted by German intelligence, and satellite imagery, Russian troops tortured and killed hundreds of civilians during their monthlong occupation of Bucha. Authorities and residents are still finding bodies across the city.

While that suburb has seized international attention, a number of nearby towns and cities were subjected to other acts of brutal, indiscriminate violence.

In Borodyanka, anther Kyiv-region city, Russian forces relentlessly shelled apartment complexes, from which bodies are still being extracted. Ukrainian president Volodymyr Zelensky said today that even more people died in Borodyanka than in Bucha.

The discovery of the atrocities carried out in March suggest that similar acts are being inflicted on other regions of Ukraine currently under Russian occupation.

On April 3, Human Rights Watch released a report documenting the “repeated rape” of a 31-year-old woman in Kharkiv.

Ukrainian foreign minister Dmytro Kuleba said on Twitter that the rape allegations documented by Denisova suggest that Russian troops are doing the same elsewhere.

“They probably commit same unspeakable crimes in the occupied towns as you read this tweet,” he wrote. “European politicians can stop this madness by imposing oil and gas embargo on Russia. Do it now!”

Two U.N. officials, Pramila Patten and Sima Bahous, also said in a statement that “mounting allegations of sexual violence perpetrated against women and girls” in Ukraine are shocking and “raise serious questions about possible war crimes.”

Here is the liberal Guardian from yesterday: https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/ ... russia-war

Evidence some Ukrainian women raped before being killed, say doctors
Forensic specialists carrying out autopsies north of Kyiv say they ‘still have hundreds of bodies to examine’

Forensic doctors carrying out postmortem examinations on bodies in mass graves north of Kyiv say they have found evidence some women were raped before being killed by Russian forces.

“We already have a few cases which suggest that these women had been raped before being shot to death,” said Vladyslav Perovskyi, a Ukrainian forensic doctor who with a team of coroners has carried out dozens of autopsies on residents from Bucha, Irpin and Borodianka who died during Russia’s month-long occupation of the area.

“We can’t give more details as my colleagues are still collecting the data and we still have hundreds of bodies to examine,” he said.

Perovskyi’s team has been examining about 15 bodies a day, many of them mutilated. “There are many burnt bodies, and heavily disfigured bodies that are just impossible to identify,” he said. “The face could be smashed into pieces, you can’t put it back together, sometimes there’s no head at all.”

He said the bodies of some women they had examined showed signs that the victims had been killed by automatic gunfire, with upwards of six bullet holes in their backs.

Oleh Tkalenko, a senior prosecutor for the Kyiv region, said details of alleged rapes had been forwarded to his office, which is investigating circumstances such as locations and the ages of victims.

“Rape cases are a very delicate and sensitive matter,” Tkalenko said. “Forensic doctors have a specific task of checking the genitalia of female victims and looking for signs of rape.”

A foreign coroner working north of Kyiv who asked to remain anonymous said some bodies “are in such bad shape that it is not easy to find signs of rapes and sexual abuses. But we are collecting evidence in a few cases of women we believe had been raped before being murdered.”

Following the withdrawal of Russian troops from towns and suburbs around the capital, dozens of women have told police, the media and human rights organisations about atrocities they say they suffered suffered at the hands of Russian soldiers. Investigators have heard testimony of gang-rapes, assaults taking place at gunpoint and rapes committed in front of children.

Ukraine’s human rights commissioner, Lyudmila Denisova, has officially documented the cases of 25 women who were kept in a basement and systematically raped in Bucha, a town north of Kyiv now synonymous with Russian war crimes. Authorities have warned those cases could be the tip of the iceberg and accused Russian troops of using rape as an instrument of war.

Ukraine’s president, Volodymyr Zelenskiy, said in a statement last week that hundreds of women had been raped by Russian soldiers. Ukrainian authorities have declined to give exact figures or details about where the rapes occurred or the ages of the victims.

Russia has repeatedly denied targeting civilians during the war even as evidence to the contrary has mounted.

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Tkalenko said women were reluctant to file police reports about acts of sexual violence because they believed the perpetrators would not be caught. Instead, they were contacting psychologists and doctors for help.

“Psychologists work with the rape victims and then with detectives,” Tkalenko said. “Women are very reserved, and the information on rape cases is more closed.”

Much of the evidence collected by Ukrainian prosecutors will soon be forwarded to the international criminal court (ICC), which has launched an investigation into possible war crimes and crimes against humanity in Ukraine.

One volunteer who travelled into liberated areas north of Kyiv on 1 April to help evacuate residents said they encountered three naked women who emerged from houses and basements. One had been badly beaten and was taken away by ambulance, they said. The volunteer said they also witnessed about 10 other women giving statements to police about being raped.

“What usually happens is that rape victims initially want to tell their story, but then they go away and it isn’t until months later that they come back to talk,” the person said.

Tkalenko says that when prosecutors hear about rape cases they approach victims individually and try to see if they will file a statement. “People are ashamed to talk about rape,” he said.

Here is the independent organization Human Rights Watch: https://www.hrw.org/news/2022/04/21/ukr ... eath-bucha

Ukraine: Russian Forces’ Trail of Death in Bucha
Preserving Evidence Critical for War Crimes Prosecutions

Russian forces committed a litany of apparent war crimes during their occupation of Bucha, a town about 30 kilometers northwest of Ukraine’s capital, Kyiv, from March 4 to 31, 2022, Human Rights Watch said in a detailed report released today.

Human Rights Watch researchers who worked in Bucha from April 4 to 10, days after Russian forces withdrew from the area, found extensive evidence of summary executions, other unlawful killings, enforced disappearances, and torture, all of which would constitute war crimes and potential crimes against humanity.

“Nearly every corner in Bucha is now a crime scene, and it felt like death was everywhere,” said Richard Weir, crisis and conflict researcher at Human Rights Watch. “The evidence indicates that Russian forces occupying Bucha showed contempt and disregard for civilian life and the most fundamental principles of the laws of war.”

Women watch and embrace each other as bodies are exhumed from a mass grave by the authoritiesClick to expand Image
Women watch as Ukrainian authorities exhume bodies from a mass grave as part of investigations into war crimes in Bucha. © Laurel Chor / SOPA Images/Sipa USA via AP Images
Human Rights Watch interviewed 32 Bucha residents in person and 5 others by phone, including victims and witnesses, emergency responders, morgue workers, doctors, a nurse, and local officials. Human Rights Watch also documented and analyzed physical evidence in the town, original photographs and videos provided by witnesses and victims, and satellite imagery.

The cases documented represent a fraction of Russian forces’ apparent war crimes in Bucha during their occupation of the town.

The chief regional prosecutor in Bucha, Ruslan Kravchenko, told Human Rights Watch on April 15 that 278 bodies had been found in the town since Russian forces withdrew, the vast majority of them civilians, and that the number was expected to rise as more bodies are discovered. Prior to the conflict, Bucha had a population of about 36,000.

Ukrainian authorities in Bucha exhume bodies from a mass graveClick to expand Image
Ukrainian authorities in Bucha exhume bodies from a mass grave behind the Church of St. Andrew and All Saints, where local authorities and volunteers placed bodies of those who died and were killed during the occupation of the city by Russian forces. © 2022 Richard Weir/Human Rights Watch
Serhii Kaplychnyi, head of the municipal funeral home in Bucha, said that, during the Russian occupation, his team placed dozens of bodies in communal graves outside the Church of St. Andrew and All Saints, after they ran out of space in the morgue. Only two of those buried were members of the Ukrainian military; the rest were civilians, he said. As of April 14, local authorities had exhumed more than 70 bodies from the church site.

Another funeral home worker, Serhii Matiuk, who helped collect bodies, said that he had personally collected about 200 bodies from the streets since the Russian invasion began on February 24. Most of the victims were men, he said, but some were women and children. Almost all of them had bullet wounds, he said, including around 50 whose hands were tied and whose bodies had signs of torture. Bodies found with hands tied strongly suggests that the victims had been detained and summarily executed.

Human Rights Watch documented the details of 16 apparently unlawful killings in Bucha, including nine summary executions and seven indiscriminate killings of civilians – 15 men and a woman. In two other documented cases, civilians were shot and wounded, including a man shot in the neck, as he was standing in his apartment on an enclosed balcony with his family, and a 9-year-old girl who was shot in the shoulder while trying to run away from Russian forces.

Human Rights Watch had previously documented a summary execution in Bucha that occurred on March 4, based on information from witnesses who had managed to flee Bucha. In that case, Russian forces rounded up five men and shot one of them in the back of the head, a witness said. In another case documented previously, on March 5, 48-year-old Viktor Koval died when Russian forces attacked the house where he and other civilians had been sheltering.

The Russian Defense Ministry denied allegations that its forces killed civilians in Bucha, stating in a Telegram post on April 3 that “not a single local resident has suffered from any violent action” while Bucha was “under the control of the Russian armed forces,” and claiming instead that the evidence of crimes was a “hoax, a staged production and provocation” by authorities in Kyiv.

Bucha residents said that Russian forces first entered Bucha on February 27, but were pushed out of the central part of the town during heavy fighting. On March 4, Russian forces returned, and largely took control of the town by March 5. Bucha then became a strategic base for the Russian forces’ efforts to advance toward Kyiv. Witnesses said that several Russian military units operated in Bucha during the occupation.

Soon after they occupied the city, Russian forces went door to door, searching residential buildings, claiming they were “hunting Nazis.” In multiple locations they looked for weapons, interrogated residents, and sometimes detained the men, allegedly for failure to comply with orders, or without providing a specific reason. Family members of those detained said they were not told where their male relatives were taken, and were unable to get information later about where they were being held. This amounts to an enforced disappearance, a crime under international law in all circumstances.

The bodies of some of those forcibly disappeared, including in two of the cases Human Rights Watch documented, were found on streets, in yards, or in basements after the Russian forces retreated – some with signs that they had been tortured. Ukrainian de-mining authorities said they found victim-activated booby traps placed on at least two dead bodies.

[Josh]

Ken,

You must have missed one of my old posts about that tired rag, the National Review, whose only circulation is (I assume) the waiting rooms in dentist's offices.

The neo-conservatives have yet to see a war they don't like. They pushed hard to get us into the Iraq War, complained bitterly about pulling out of Afghanistan, so it is of no surprise at all to see them beating the war drums for trying to get us mixed up in Ukraine vs. Russia's internal squabble.

[temporal1]

In the U.S., sex with a 14 year old girl or boy (legal minor) is always rape, in war or peace.

[Ken]

Ken,

You must have missed one of my old posts about that tired rag, the National Review, whose only circulation is (I assume) the waiting rooms in dentist's offices.

The neo-conservatives have yet to see a war they don't like. They pushed hard to get us into the Iraq War, complained bitterly about pulling out of Afghanistan, so it is of no surprise at all to see them beating the war drums for trying to get us mixed up in Ukraine vs. Russia's internal squabble.

I challenge you to find a single legitimate large daily newspaper from anywhere in the world that has not reported on Russian war crimes and rape in Ukraine. Go ahead. Give it a try.

[temporal1]

Ken,
You must have missed one of my old posts about that tired rag, the National Review, whose only circulation is (I assume) the waiting rooms in dentist's offices.

The neo-conservatives have yet to see a war they don't like. They pushed hard to get us into the Iraq War, complained bitterly about pulling out of Afghanistan, so it is of no surprise at all to see them beating the war drums for trying to get us mixed up in Ukraine vs. Russia's internal squabble.

I challenge you to find a single legitimate large daily newspaper from anywhere in the world that has not reported on Russian war crimes and rape in Ukraine. Go ahead. Give it a try.

no one is saying atrocities aren’t happening. they happen in times of peace, they are feared+predicted in war.
they are allegations until proven, if they ever see a courtroom.

newspapers are known for copying+printing, one report will show up in multiple releases.
usually there are credits to the original source.

lots of allegations, often eventually found untrue. i’m not sure why you’re having such a hard time with this.
there is ample evidence.

the reports MAY be accurate, they may not be. they MAY be accurate in part, they often are.
“legitimate” large daily newspapers are not the infallible all-knowing Word of God.

[Josh]

Ken,

You must have missed one of my old posts about that tired rag, the National Review, whose only circulation is (I assume) the waiting rooms in dentist's offices.

The neo-conservatives have yet to see a war they don't like. They pushed hard to get us into the Iraq War, complained bitterly about pulling out of Afghanistan, so it is of no surprise at all to see them beating the war drums for trying to get us mixed up in Ukraine vs. Russia's internal squabble.

I challenge you to find a single legitimate large daily newspaper from anywhere in the world that has not reported on Russian war crimes and rape in Ukraine. Go ahead. Give it a try.

I checked Izvestia and couldn't find anything, and Xinhua too, and didn't find anything there.

I also found nothing in The Hindustan Times.

Times of India had some articles with the complaints of the Ukraine official government sources, but no other evidence was put forward.

Did you mean "Western mainstream media", Ken, or did you have something else in mind? India and China are pretty big places and their news media does not seem to think this is the reality that you think it is.

[Ken]

Ken,

You must have missed one of my old posts about that tired rag, the National Review, whose only circulation is (I assume) the waiting rooms in dentist's offices.

The neo-conservatives have yet to see a war they don't like. They pushed hard to get us into the Iraq War, complained bitterly about pulling out of Afghanistan, so it is of no surprise at all to see them beating the war drums for trying to get us mixed up in Ukraine vs. Russia's internal squabble.

I challenge you to find a single legitimate large daily newspaper from anywhere in the world that has not reported on Russian war crimes and rape in Ukraine. Go ahead. Give it a try.

I checked Izvestia and couldn't find anything, and Xinhua too, and didn't find anything there.

I also found nothing in The Hindustan Times.

Times of India had some articles with the complaints of the Ukraine official government sources, but no other evidence was put forward.

Did you mean "Western mainstream media", Ken, or did you have something else in mind? India and China are pretty big places and their news media does not seem to think this is the reality that you think it is.

Izvestia? Thanks for the laugh.

Otherwise you didn't try very hard. Here is the Hindustan Times: https://www.hindustantimes.com/world-ne ... 19716.html

[Josh]

That article simply reports on what a prosecutor is saying and doing. It does not support your narrative that these "war crimes" are "facts".

Notably:

There is, of course, an even bigger prize that lies just out of reach: Hundreds of billions of dollars of Russian assets frozen by the U.S., E.U., U.K., Switzerland and others. Maybe one day that too could be used to fund reconstruction and reparations in Ukraine.

That is what is really at play here. Ukraine has always been ground zero for massive corruption, grifting, and where oligarchs go to get rich; right now is no different. This person wants a piece of that very big pie.