The CAM scandal links and assorted other topics thread

[ken_sylvania]

https://gameo.org/index.php?title=Muddy ... ania,_USA)

I think this one should work. The auto-hyperlink function wasn't picking up the trailing parenthesis.

[Aurien]

https://gameo.org/index.php?title=Muddy ... ania,_USA)

I think this one should work. The auto-hyperlink function wasn't picking up the trailing parenthesis.

Good to know. Thanks for fixing it.

[TruthSeeker]

To all who raised understandable questions on the HH case yesterday, I am not ignoring you. Clearly I have all--or most --of the salacious/sordid details. However, I wish to keep the focus on what I believe is of utmost priority and urgency:

Neither Harold nor his church has ever (to my knowledge) acknowledged or ministered to the victims!
If innocence abounds, why hasn't Harold stated something to this effect:
"What have I done to make you feel as though I abused you sexually? How can we work through this? I care deeply that you are hurting!"

[temporal1]

To all who raised understandable questions on the HH case yesterday, I am not ignoring you. Clearly I have all--or most --of the salacious/sordid details.

However, I wish to keep the focus on what I believe is of utmost priority and urgency:

Neither Harold nor his church has ever (to my knowledge) acknowledged or ministered to the victims!
If innocence abounds, why hasn't Harold stated something to this effect:
"What have I done to make you feel as though I abused you sexually? How can we work through this? I care deeply that you are hurting!"

i hope it’s ok, i referenced your post in another thread:
Page 12 / “The *official* ..
http://forum.mennonet.com/viewtopic.php ... 959#p80959

[Ms. Izzie]

It is not necessary to label all those who discuss the CAM scandal as slanderous tale-bearers. Just as it is not necessary to label all those involved with CAM as corrupt people who are trying to hide sin.

In my opinion, the way we think about the CAM issue largely depends on our connections with CAM.

I believe there probably are slanderers and there probably are corrupt people. And sometimes we, ourselves, are a mixed bag of good and evil warring against each other. But in the end, God will sort it out.

Also, the internet has a way of pulling the covers back on both slander and abuse. Whether you think this is good or evil...….

As always, it is good to ask God to search our hearts and see if there is any wicked way within us.

[Aurien]

Friends,
Some years ago I was on Menno Discuss, and left that and all other public forums because of the unholy atmosphere in which things were discussed. Perhaps one could say that I became Menno Disgusted. Not with Menno, but with people who name the name of Christ but waste their life haunting discussion boards, chattering needlessly, spreading gossip and slander, making speculations about people and incidents to which they did not know the details.
I have signed on again here, but I am about to sign back off once again. The talebearing, gossip, slandering, tearing down of reputations, and open discussion of the sins of others is nothing less than appalling and a shame. But most of all, it is sin.
Those who spread rumors, share unverified accusations, make allegations, post links to other sites that do so, make insinuations, and such like will burn forever and ever in hell along with pedophiles, drug dealers, and prostitutes.
My heart is sad. I have almost literally come to tears here in the last few minutes thinking about all of this.
Please consider your ways. If you have committed the sins of talebearing, gossip spreading, character destruction, or making speculations of matter of which you do not know the details, I want to point you to the way out.
Repentance. Confess to God, your church, the people you have slandered or gossiped about.
I am sad. And I am about to sign off of here and delete my new account once again.
Thank you for hearing me plea.
I speak the truth to you, literally. My fingers are shaking and I am sobbing.
Good bye.
Mike Atnip

Shedding light on sexual abuse allegations and confirmed cases of sexual abuse is not talebearing, gossiping, slandering, being a busybody, character destruction, or whatever else you'd like to call it. It is way past time to bring these hidden sins into the light of day, and stop misusing Bible verses to enable perpetrators to continue harming others. The common response to sexual abuse in CA communities seems to be silence when it comes to the perpetrator, and slandering those who were abused. And I mean actual slander, not the speaking of truth that you seem to be confusing with slander.
It is those who have committed the crimes of sexual abuse and who have covered up sexual abuse who have torn down their own characters. NOT those who speak openly about sexual abuse.

I don't know if you'll be back on here to see this, but if you do stop by again then I would like you to tell me clearly step by step how you propose dealing with those who sexually abuse others or who have been accused of sexually abusing others. When and where is the place to speak about sexual abuse and with whom should we speak?

I'd like to add that when victims of abuse read things about this they feel much less inclined to come forward. They fear that people will label them the way you have just labeled people.

[Aurien]

It is not necessary to label all those who discuss the CAM scandal as slanderous tale-bearers. Just as it is not necessary to label all those involved with CAM as corrupt people who are trying to hide sin.

In my opinion, the way we think about the CAM issue largely depends on our connections with CAM.

I believe there probably are slanderers and there probably are corrupt people. And sometimes we, ourselves, are a mixed bag of good and evil warring against each other. But in the end, God will sort it out.

Also, the internet has a way of pulling the covers back on both slander and abuse. Whether you think this is good or evil...….

As always, it is good to ask God to search our hearts and see if there is any wicked way within us.

I agree. Also thanks for the reminder in your last sentence.

[Aurien]

Friends,
Some years ago I was on Menno Discuss, and left that and all other public forums because of the unholy atmosphere in which things were discussed. Perhaps one could say that I became Menno Disgusted. Not with Menno, but with people who name the name of Christ but waste their life haunting discussion boards, chattering needlessly, spreading gossip and slander, making speculations about people and incidents to which they did not know the details.
I have signed on again here, but I am about to sign back off once again. The talebearing, gossip, slandering, tearing down of reputations, and open discussion of the sins of others is nothing less than appalling and a shame. But most of all, it is sin.
Those who spread rumors, share unverified accusations, make allegations, post links to other sites that do so, make insinuations, and such like will burn forever and ever in hell along with pedophiles, drug dealers, and prostitutes.
My heart is sad. I have almost literally come to tears here in the last few minutes thinking about all of this.
Please consider your ways. If you have committed the sins of talebearing, gossip spreading, character destruction, or making speculations of matter of which you do not know the details, I want to point you to the way out.
Repentance. Confess to God, your church, the people you have slandered or gossiped about.
I am sad. And I am about to sign off of here and delete my new account once again.
Thank you for hearing me plea.
I speak the truth to you, literally. My fingers are shaking and I am sobbing.
Good bye.
Mike Atnip

When I read this my first thought was that to be so passionate about this you must have some kind of affiliation with one or more of the people mentioned in this thread. Then I saw that you wrote for The Heartbeat of the Remnant which was published by Ephrata Ministries which is a ministry of Ephrata Christian Fellowship. So is it possible that your previous affiliation with a Charity ministry is coloring your view of things?

[Josh]

To any victims who have read this, who are afraid to speak up:

The blood of Jesus covers a multitude of sins. You will not go to hell because you were angry about being abused. You will not go to hell because you said unkind words about your abuse. You will not go to hell because you got some detail wrong when you told your story. You will not go to hell for "destroying the character" of someone who abused you, when you shared the horrible details of what that person did to you.

You may very well have serious challenges to walk through in finding ways to forgive unspeakable offences, not letting the hurt and anger tear you to pieces inside, and not falling into dark anger or deep depression as you deal with the reality of what happened.

Another difficult area of forgiveness will be forgiving all the people who tell you are wrong and will go to hell for speaking up, even though it is not wrong at all to speak up and speak truthfully about what happened to you.

To Mike Atnip,

I'm very sorry you are caught in the bondage of thinking the "right" thing to do is to cover up grievous death sins. These sins have been brought before the entire church, and are now being spoken about in the light of day. Since you quoted from Proverbs, let me quote from Jesus in the gospel:

Therefore whatsoever ye have spoken in darkness shall be heard in the light; and that which ye have spoken in the ear in closets shall be proclaimed upon the housetops.

I hope that the saving grace and power of Jesus enables you to walk away from this bondage and realise the right thing to do is to come clean and come forward and reconcile every past area of hidden sexual abuse. The only sins that will count on judgment day are the ones that have been kept in the dark, not repented of, and not brought out into the light. Precious souls will be lost for eternity - the souls of each abuser who never repents of his sin in the light of day. Please join me in caring about these souls before it's too late!

[TruthSeeker]

i hope it’s ok, i referenced your post in another thread:
Page 12 / “The *official* ..
http://forum.mennonet.com/viewtopic.php ... 959#p80959

Sure, temporal1. Thanks for asking.