George Floyd

[HondurasKeiser]

I don't usually like posting audio or video here but I would recommend Coleman Hughes' and Rafael Mangual's interview on the City Journal podcast today. Perhaps like some others here I have been struggling to reconcile comments like this:

Wade, maybe innocent black men is being 'prioritized' because there is a very low chance this would have happened to an innocent white man. It happens far too often these days. Those of us who are white can't begin to comprehend what it is like for black people - we live with white privilege so while it looks like it says black is being prioritized over white, it's more that life/lives is being prioritized over property...

which I think, admirably seek to listen to and understand the lived experiences of black Americans; with statistics and analysis from sources like the Washington Post, the Wall Street Journal, National Review and the Manhattan Institute that seemingly countermand the anecdotal evidence. To that end this 20 minute podcast did so thoughtfully and respectfully and left me with much to think about. Here's an excerpt from the transcript:

I think one of the reasons that maybe a white American sees one of these videos and doesn't see themselves in it is because, at least in the instance where the watcher is someone who's a law-abiding citizen, they don't expect that to be a real outcome because they don't expect to have that kind of interaction with the police.

Whereas I think, again, partly because of the sort of rhetorical posture of our modern debate, a lot of black Americans, irrespective of how law abiding they are, are sort of made to feel like this is an inevitability. But in fact, if you look at the data on police use of force, many of the studies make very clear that for example, the rate of violent crime is a much stronger predictor of changes in police use of force for a particular neighborhood, than racial demographics.

[Szdfan]

which I think, admirably seek to listen to and understand the lived experiences of black Americans; with statistics and analysis from sources like the Washington Post, the Wall Street Journal, National Review and the Manhattan Institute that seemingly countermand the anecdotal evidence.

The Washington Post article you linked to seems to disagree with you?

Although half of the people shot and killed by police are white, black Americans are shot at a disproportionate rate. They account for less than 13 percent of the U.S. population, but are killed by police at more than twice the rate of white Americans. Hispanic Americans are also killed by police at a disproportionate rate.

[JimFoxvog]

My wife and I were at the local Black Lives Matter protest in Princeton, Illinois, our small county seat. Bureau County is overwhelmingly white, but there were nearly 200 attendees. Very peaceful and respectful, with only calls to peace and justice. It was good to see a family that used to be a member of our church before it disbanded I hadn't seen for a long time. We also met an elder of our current Mennonite church there and saw several other clergy of other denominations.



People did a pretty good job of mostly covering their faces and keeping their distance. Illinois is now recommending those who go to mass gatherings like this get free COVID-19 testing a week later, so we might do that.

[Josh]

I’m baffled that political protests are okay from a public health perspective but regular religious services are not, along with weddings and funerals.

Religious services, weddings, funerals, and so forth are far more important to the fabric of society than political protests. Ultimately, strong families and strong communities are the best bulwark against things like police brutality.

[RZehr]

Exactly right. Churches no, protests yes. It’s because everyone has realized that Covid-19 is not the death sentence it was initially thought to be.
Now, politicians are just trying to figure out the political expedient way to handle it. Used to be bend the curve. Now the goal posts are moved.

[RZehr]

Here is another case of police killing someone in custody similarly:
https://www.dallasnews.com/news/investi ... cWyeIXWG0w
These police need to have a major readjustment in their mentality.

[JimFoxvog]

Here is another case of police killing someone in custody similarly:
https://www.dallasnews.com/news/investi ... cWyeIXWG0w
These police need to have a major readjustment in their mentality.

That is clear.
What procedures and policies can help reduce lethal police violence?

[Josh]

Here is another case of police killing someone in custody similarly:
https://www.dallasnews.com/news/investi ... cWyeIXWG0w
These police need to have a major readjustment in their mentality.

That is clear.
What procedures and policies can help reduce lethal police violence?

A society of people committed to lawful behavior with self government at every level, starting with strong families.

A lawless people without the family is going to have a lot of violence and eventually that lawlessness will extend to government workers too.

[Robert]

Here is another case of police killing someone in custody similarly:
https://www.dallasnews.com/news/investi ... cWyeIXWG0w
These police need to have a major readjustment in their mentality.

That is clear.
What procedures and policies can help reduce lethal police violence?

Here are some facts some might have missed in this case. From the article you posted:

“I was unable to assess the patient due to his combativeness,” said one of the first responders in a newly obtained affidavit.

However, the medical responders appear to take Timpa’s blood pressure while he is still conscious, about five minutes before administering Versed, a powerful sedative. By the time the paramedic gives Timpa the sedative, officers already are questioning if Timpa is awake.

An autopsy ruled Timpa's cause of death was a homicide, sudden cardiac death due to "the toxic effects of cocaine and the stress associated with physical restraint."

Creuzot previously told The News that he met with "all three medical examiners" who had testified to the grand jury. They reportedly told him they did not believe the officers acted recklessly and "cannot, and will not, testify to the elements of the indictment beyond a reasonable doubt."

When officers first arrived at the scene, they told Timpa he would be OK. “We’re gonna get you some help, man,” one of the officers tells him.

But within 15 minutes, Timpa’s not breathing and Dillard can be heard saying: “I hope I didn’t kill him.”

Moments later, after the emergency medical technicians tell police he is dead, Dillard climbs out of the ambulance that holds Timpa’s lifeless body.

Dillard turns to someone before shutting off his body camera and says, “Sorry. We tried.”

Illegal drugs kill. Maybe they could have done something better. I do hope they learn, but they are not medical experts. They are law enforcement trying to deal with a combative overdose. I see no desire to harm, I see accidental death due to ignorance and poor training.

[Robert]

And the other side of the story that I suspected would come out.

“(Officer) Lane asked, “should we roll him on his side?” and the defendant (Officer Chauvin) said, “No, staying put where we got him.” ... Officer Lane said, “I am worried about excited delirium or whatever.” Officer Derek Chauvin replied, “That’s why we have him on his stomach.”

These quotes - exculpatory evidence - are taken directly from the criminal complaint filed against Officer Derek Chauvin, which was either all or in part, taken from the unedited body-cam videos of the officers during the arrest of George Floyd.

As stated, Officer Lane was “worried” meaning he was thinking about unpleasant things that might happen because of excited delirium. Officer Chauvin replied “That’s why” meaning this was the reason he was trying to keep George Floyd in the position he was. But this has not been publicized, at least as of this writing.

There are some interesting facts about Excited Delirium that are pertinent to this case. Indeed, they are an integral part of this incident.

According to a study of Excited Delirium ( EXD) conducted by Drs. Takeuchi and Henderson of the USC Keck School of Medicine and Terry Ahern of UCSD Medical School, which was published in the Western Journal of Emergency Medicine, EXD is “ ...characterized by agitation, aggression, acute distress and sudden death, often in the pre-hospital care setting. It is typically associated with the use of drugs that alter dopamine processing, hyperthermia, and, most notably, sometimes with death of the affected person in the custody of law enforcement. Subjects typically die from cardiopulmonary arrest, although the cause is debated. Unfortunately, an adequate treatment plan has yet to be established, in part due to the fact that most patients die before hospital arrival. (Emphasis not in the original)

This scientific research also notes, “As mentioned before, people experiencing EXD are highly agitated, violent, and show signs of unexpected strength so it is not surprising that most require physical restraint. The prone maximal restraint position... where the person’s ankles and wrists are bound together behind their back, has been used extensively by field personnel. In far fewer cases, persons have been tied to a hospital gurney or manually held prone with knee pressure on the back or neck.” (Emphasis not in the original).

Therefore, Officer Chauvin was not committing an act of murder but implementing a restraining technique. Indeed, he may have been trying to prevent Floyd from hurting himself.

It is going to get messy. These officers will not be charged, or slapped on the wrist. More riots will flare at the trial. News media and politicians will distort and inflame to get the results they want. We have seen this before.