steve-in-kville wrote:Maybe I'm way off base, but the few churches we attended had a pattern. The churches that preached on sexual/moral sin had the highest rate of such failures among their membership.
So was it because they had a problem that is was preached so much? Or did the constant preaching keep it in everyone's mind and caused temptation?
Thoughts on this? Am I the only one to see this pattern?
This is probably a new topic, but I’ve noticed that where the focus is on not sinning (I have in mind some particular homeschooling families here) is precisely where sin turns up. Contrast that with preaching something to aspire to—follow Jesus. It’s a topic that’s probably worth discussing if someone wants to start it.
Don't think of pink elephants!!!
Don't think of pink elephants!!!
You must not think of pink elephants1
Now what are you thinking of?
Seriously, my impression of Charity is that it is Bill Gothardism in a church context. Am I right or off base?
J.M.
The Charity movement was full of leaders and members with shelves stocked with IBLP books and attending ATI.
I had someone a few years ago tell me there is no way Gothard actually did what he was accused of - despite his own board removing him, calling the police on him to get him to leave their meetings, and hundreds of accusers, including one who is a personal real life friend of mine.
Nope, they still think him and his teachings are A-OK.
Josh wrote:
The Charity movement was full of leaders and members with shelves stocked with IBLP books and attending ATI.
I had someone a few years ago tell me there is no way Gothard actually did what he was accused of - despite his own board removing him, calling the police on him to get him to leave their meetings, and hundreds of accusers, including one who is a personal real life friend of mine.
Nope, they still think him and his teachings are A-OK.
When it came to Bill Gothard, the man, my creep-o-meter always went up, even before he was ever accused of anything. But I never could put my finger on it, until he was indeed accused. That being said, I wouldn't throw all his teachings out the window, and deem it all bad. There are some (not all) teachings that still can be learned from.
Grace wrote:
When it came to Bill Gothard, the man, my creep-o-meter always went up, even before he was ever accused of anything. But I never could put my finger on it, until he was indeed accused. That being said, I wouldn't throw all his teachings out the window, and deem it all bad. There are some (not all) teachings that still can be learned from.
Gothard is an ingenious salesman who tapped into a ready market of well meaning Christians who missed the part that his pitch is not about Jesus. He repackaged the same materials without christiany-language to take into places that wouldn't allow religion.
He says following his blueprint will guarantee success. It is the most deceiving prosperity doctrine I have ever seen.
Josh wrote:
The Charity movement was full of leaders and members with shelves stocked with IBLP books and attending ATI.
I had someone a few years ago tell me there is no way Gothard actually did what he was accused of - despite his own board removing him, calling the police on him to get him to leave their meetings, and hundreds of accusers, including one who is a personal real life friend of mine.
Nope, they still think him and his teachings are A-OK.
When it came to Bill Gothard, the man, my creep-o-meter always went up, even before he was ever accused of anything. But I never could put my finger on it, until he was indeed accused. That being said, I wouldn't throw all his teachings out the window, and deem it all bad. There are some (not all) teachings that still can be learned from.
That’s like saying Muhammad and the Koran have good teachings. They very well may, but I wouldn’t be excited about my church promoting such books and seminars.
Josh wrote:
That’s like saying Muhammad and the Koran have good teachings. They very well may, but I wouldn’t be excited about my church promoting such books and seminars.
Grace wrote:
When it came to Bill Gothard, the man, my creep-o-meter always went up, even before he was ever accused of anything. But I never could put my finger on it, until he was indeed accused. That being said, I wouldn't throw all his teachings out the window, and deem it all bad. There are some (not all) teachings that still can be learned from.
Gothard is an ingenious salesman who tapped into a ready market of well meaning Christians who missed the part that his pitch is not about Jesus. He repackaged the same materials without christiany-language to take into places that wouldn't allow religion.
He says following his blueprint will guarantee success. It is the most deceiving prosperity doctrine I have ever seen.
Amen. Whenever I ran into advocates of his teaching my first instinct was RUN!
His teaching left quite a number of single gals that I know waiting for "Mr. Right" to propose to their fathers, while solid young men were available that they could have gotten to know. It was sure a messed up way to approach relationships.
The Charity movement was full of leaders and members with shelves stocked with IBLP books and attending ATI.
I had someone a few years ago tell me there is no way Gothard actually did what he was accused of - despite his own board removing him, calling the police on him to get him to leave their meetings, and hundreds of accusers, including one who is a personal real life friend of mine.
Nope, they still think him and his teachings are A-OK.[/quote]
They took the same position with Jeriah and now again in regards to Harold Herr! .... He could not have done these atrocities.... in spite of the fact his own son as a professional speaks to the horror of his childhood.... and people other than family have serious red flags.... and missionaries are gravely concerned about things that surfaced in Haiti.
This willful denial on multiple levels speaks volumes! Pay attention to the people/groups who align and protect the predator!
Pelerin wrote:
This is probably a new topic, but I’ve noticed that where the focus is on not sinning (I have in mind some particular homeschooling families here) is precisely where sin turns up. Contrast that with preaching something to aspire to—follow Jesus. It’s a topic that’s probably worth discussing if someone wants to start it.
Don't think of pink elephants!!!
Don't think of pink elephants!!!
You must not think of pink elephants1
Now what are you thinking of?
Seriously, my impression of Charity is that it is Bill Gothardism in a church context. Am I right or off base?
J.M.
The Charity movement was full of leaders and members with shelves stocked with IBLP books and attending ATI.
I had someone a few years ago tell me there is no way Gothard actually did what he was accused of - despite his own board removing him, calling the police on him to get him to leave their meetings, and hundreds of accusers, including one who is a personal real life friend of mine.
Nope, they still think him and his teachings are A-OK.
They took the same position with Jeriah and now again in regards to Harold Herr! .... He could not have done these atrocities.... in spite of the fact his own son as a professional speaks to the horror of his childhood.... and people other than family have serious red flags.... and missionaries are gravely concerned about things that surfaced in Haiti.
This willful denial on multiple levels speaks volumes! Pay attention to the people/groups who align and protect the predator!
Where do the Charity groups fall on the Mennonite spectrum? Moderate-Conservative? Progressive-Conservative? I'm wondering because my former church which falls under Progressive-Conservative was really into Bill Gothard's teachings for a while. From some of the things I heard at Sharon Mennonite Bible Institute's Family Week it seems like Gothard's teachings had crept into a number of churches. I don't know what group everyone who attended Family Week fell into but a lot of them seem like they would have fallen under the Progressive-Conservative label.
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When you can't run, you crawl, and when you can't crawl - when you can't do that...you find someone to carry you. --Firefly
