Global Warning/Climate Change

[Neto]

Do you think this would apply just to the Leafs or any EV car?

I have seen all kinds of widely varying estimates as to how long the batteries will last. Everything from around 5 years up to 15. Some of these include lots of mathematical calculations, others are just quoting someone who is supposed to know what they're talking about. But if results vary with these as they do in respect to normal auto batteries, then a lot depends on how hard it is used, how low it is allowed to get before it is charged again (some batteries develop a memory, and if charged before being discharged to some certain level will start running down faster, but I don't know about this type of battery), and perhaps most importantly from my perspective, how the owner needs to use it. That is, if the vehicle is only used for short trips close to home, then a battery that will no longer develop a complete charge might be usable for many years longer than one that must perform at near new capacity, for long trips. But in round figures, from what I've read about it, the batteries will began to degrade noticeably at around 10 years. and will cost, on average, around $10,000.00. Many vehicle in that state will end up in the scrap heap. Now if they are attractive designs, then maybe ratrodders can trash the drive train & install the complete drive train out of an ICE vehicle. (And yes, I fully realize that this would involve removing all but the body shell itself. There are guys doing that now with old vehicles - just setting the old body onto a more recent drive train, using the donor firewall, dash, floor boards, etc. If the manufacturers would build cars like non-branded computers (with standardized components), it would open up lots of possibilities.

Just checked with a sibling who has a Tesla and he doesn’t use it much, maybe 6k miles a year. His range has not decreased in any significant way. He thinks maybe 15 miles, and iirc he had one with a 300-500 mile range.

Just curious, how long has he had it?

[Sliceitup]

I have seen all kinds of widely varying estimates as to how long the batteries will last. Everything from around 5 years up to 15. Some of these include lots of mathematical calculations, others are just quoting someone who is supposed to know what they're talking about. But if results vary with these as they do in respect to normal auto batteries, then a lot depends on how hard it is used, how low it is allowed to get before it is charged again (some batteries develop a memory, and if charged before being discharged to some certain level will start running down faster, but I don't know about this type of battery), and perhaps most importantly from my perspective, how the owner needs to use it. That is, if the vehicle is only used for short trips close to home, then a battery that will no longer develop a complete charge might be usable for many years longer than one that must perform at near new capacity, for long trips. But in round figures, from what I've read about it, the batteries will began to degrade noticeably at around 10 years. and will cost, on average, around $10,000.00. Many vehicle in that state will end up in the scrap heap. Now if they are attractive designs, then maybe ratrodders can trash the drive train & install the complete drive train out of an ICE vehicle. (And yes, I fully realize that this would involve removing all but the body shell itself. There are guys doing that now with old vehicles - just setting the old body onto a more recent drive train, using the donor firewall, dash, floor boards, etc. If the manufacturers would build cars like non-branded computers (with standardized components), it would open up lots of possibilities.

Just checked with a sibling who has a Tesla and he doesn’t use it much, maybe 6k miles a year. His range has not decreased in any significant way. He thinks maybe 15 miles, and iirc he had one with a 300-500 mile range.

Just curious, how long has he had it?

Just over three years

[Robert]

Just curious, how long has he had it?

Just over three years

It is not the age of the batteries, but the cycles of charge and discharge.

[appleman2006]

6000 miles a year? Yeah if that is all one drives an electric car would probably work. For most of us with present infrastructure available these are just not even close to feasible as of yet. I strongly suspect that if a used electrical vehicle is available for 7000 dollars there are some very good reasons. One being that there is very limited demand for a vehicle such as that.

[Ken]

I dare you to buy one of those 7000 dollar cars. I expect you will be paying a pile of a lot more in the first couple of years. Think new battery.

I would buy one for a commuter car and probably will when the Prius gets handed down. My daughter is a HS junior and she may or may not need a car in the future depending on which college she goes to. If she needs a car I'll give her the old Prius and buy something like a used Leaf of the equivalent for local commuting. My commute is 6 miles each way. I usually do it by bike unless the weather is horrible or I have a lot of stuff to bring to work. My wife's commute is about 10 miles each way. So either of us could run a used EV into the ground for commuting. We only need about a 30 mile range. We have a separate 4x4 snow car that we have to have for my wife because we live on a steep hill that gets occasional snow and ice and as a medical professional she absolutely has to be available on call in all weather. Otherwise her employer makes her check into a hotel across from the hospital during winter storms and she hates that.

So a 4x4 snow car for inclement weather and out-of-town road trips, an older EV for day-to-day commuting in town, and a bicycle will suit all our needs.

I don't need a new EV with a 300 mile range.

We also live in the perfect climate for an EV. The batteries degrade faster if you use them in a really hot climate like Phoenix.

[Sliceitup]

6000 miles a year? Yeah if that is all one drives an electric car would probably work. For most of us with present infrastructure available they are just not even close to feasible as of yet. I strongly suspect that if a used electrical vehicle is available to 7000 dollars there are some very good reasons. One being that there is very limited demand for a vehicle such as that.

Yeah most people will put a lot more miles on than he does.

[Robert]

We also live in the perfect climate for an EV. The batteries degrade faster if you use them in a really hot climate like Phoenix.

I also wish we had the choice of hydro generation. We do not. This narrows down what can be used.

I would be comfortable with a new nuclear plant right down the road.

[Ken]

We also live in the perfect climate for an EV. The batteries degrade faster if you use them in a really hot climate like Phoenix.

I also wish we had the choice of hydro generation. We do not. This narrows down what can be used.

I would be comfortable with a new nuclear plant right down the road.

I would too. The new small scale designs are very interesting and are supposed to be extremely safe. The nuclear waste issue is entirely political not scientific.

[nett]

We also live in the perfect climate for an EV. The batteries degrade faster if you use them in a really hot climate like Phoenix.

I also wish we had the choice of hydro generation. We do not. This narrows down what can be used.

I would be comfortable with a new nuclear plant right down the road.

Who's going to pay for it. The power company will never get their investment back...

[Robert]

Who's going to pay for it. The power company will never get their investment back...

If we could get some balanced and sensible deregulation, they could easily. I doubt that will happen, but would have no issues if it did.