Russia Invades Ukraine 2022

Things that are not part of politics happening presently and how we approach or address it as Anabaptists.
Ken
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Joined: Thu Jun 13, 2019 12:02 am
Location: Washington State
Affiliation: former MCUSA

Re: Russia Invades Ukraine 2022

Post by Ken »

Josh wrote: ↑Wed Apr 06, 2022 1:59 pm
Ken wrote: ↑Wed Apr 06, 2022 1:26 pm That picture is a screen-shot from this video showing a mobile crematorium in Russia



The same photo and video was published by the NY Post on the first day of the war:

https://nypost.com/2022/02/24/russia-ha ... ad-report/

I'm not sure the fact that the author of that tweet found a publicly available photo to use necessarily negates the claim being made by the mayor of Mariupol.
In other words, posting pictures of this is completely deceptive. Got it.
I don't know. Is it?

If I write a news story about how the Amish in PA use horse and buggies and then attach a stock photo of an Amish horse and buggy that happens to be from Ohio, is that being deceptive and does it negate the actual story?

Or, to provide a Ukraine war context, if I write a story about how the Russians are using T-72 tanks in Mariupol and then attach a stock photo of a Russian T-72 tank, does that negate the facts of the story?

I have no idea whether the story is accurate or not. It is just a tweet. But I don't see the author claiming that the photo in question is actually a mobile crematorium currently in operation in Mariupol as opposed to a stock picture of what one actually looks like.
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A fool can throw out more questions than a wise man can answer. -RZehr
Josh

Re: Russia Invades Ukraine 2022

Post by Josh »

ken_sylvania wrote: ↑Wed Apr 06, 2022 1:00 pm
We're going to go over this again since Ken is having trouble comprehending what this Twitter author asserted:

"Mobile crematoria in #Mariupol

Mayor of Mariupol Vadim Boychenko said today that #Russian mobile crematoria have started operating in the city.

According to him, tens of thousands of people could have died in Mariupol and the cremation, "covering up the traces of crimes".

Then followed by a picture of a mobile crematorium. The intent of the Tweet is to say this as a caption. It does not clear at all that this picture is fake and is not an actual picture of a mobile crematorium in Mariupol. As far as we know there aren't any. If there were, we could presume the mayor might take a picture of one and share it.
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mike

Re: Russia Invades Ukraine 2022

Post by mike »

Josh wrote: ↑Wed Apr 06, 2022 2:34 pm We're going to go over this again since Ken is having trouble comprehending what this Twitter author asserted:

"Mobile crematoria in #Mariupol

Mayor of Mariupol Vadim Boychenko said today that #Russian mobile crematoria have started operating in the city.

According to him, tens of thousands of people could have died in Mariupol and the cremation, "covering up the traces of crimes".

Then followed by a picture of a mobile crematorium. The intent of the Tweet is to say this as a caption. It does not clear at all that this picture is fake and is not an actual picture of a mobile crematorium in Mariupol. As far as we know there aren't any. If there were, we could presume the mayor might take a picture of one and share it.
You will be glad to know that many news outlets are reporting this claim of the Mariupol city council without the use of this photo.
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Szdfan

Re: Russia Invades Ukraine 2022

Post by Szdfan »

https://www.nytimes.com/live/2022/04/06 ... icial-says
Russia has withdrawn all of its troops that had been arrayed against Kyiv and Chernihiv, two major cities in northern Ukraine, and sent them back to Belarus and Russia to rearm and resupply, presumably for duty soon in eastern Ukraine, a senior Pentagon official said on Wednesday.

When Russia announced more than a week ago that it was withdrawing its forces around Kyiv and elsewhere in the north to focus on the east, many U.S. officials voiced suspicion that it might be a ruse, since many of the Russian forces were dug in, and Moscow continued to pummel the cities with air and artillery strikes.

But in the past week, senior Pentagon officials said 20 percent, then two-thirds, and, as of Wednesday, all of the Russian ground forces advancing against Kyiv and Chernihiv — about 40 battalion tactical groups, or as many as 40,000 troops — had left, in many cases under fierce attack from Ukrainian troops who retook the territory.
Russia now has about 30 battalion tactical groups — or as many as 30,000 troops — in the east, the senior Pentagon official said. Earlier this week, Jake Sullivan, President Biden’s national security adviser, said Russia would likely send “tens of thousands of soldiers to the front line in Ukraine’s east” in the coming week.
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JimFoxvog

Re: Russia Invades Ukraine 2022

Post by JimFoxvog »

mike wrote: ↑Wed Apr 06, 2022 2:44 pm
You will be glad to know that many news outlets are reporting this claim of the Mariupol city council without the use of this photo.
A reputable news outlet could use the photo but just label it "stock photo". I don't think people hold Twitter to the same standards.
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Ken
Posts: 21863
Joined: Thu Jun 13, 2019 12:02 am
Location: Washington State
Affiliation: former MCUSA

Re: Russia Invades Ukraine 2022

Post by Ken »

Szdfan wrote: ↑Wed Apr 06, 2022 4:32 pm https://www.nytimes.com/live/2022/04/06 ... icial-says
Russia has withdrawn all of its troops that had been arrayed against Kyiv and Chernihiv, two major cities in northern Ukraine, and sent them back to Belarus and Russia to rearm and resupply, presumably for duty soon in eastern Ukraine, a senior Pentagon official said on Wednesday.

When Russia announced more than a week ago that it was withdrawing its forces around Kyiv and elsewhere in the north to focus on the east, many U.S. officials voiced suspicion that it might be a ruse, since many of the Russian forces were dug in, and Moscow continued to pummel the cities with air and artillery strikes.

But in the past week, senior Pentagon officials said 20 percent, then two-thirds, and, as of Wednesday, all of the Russian ground forces advancing against Kyiv and Chernihiv — about 40 battalion tactical groups, or as many as 40,000 troops — had left, in many cases under fierce attack from Ukrainian troops who retook the territory.
Russia now has about 30 battalion tactical groups — or as many as 30,000 troops — in the east, the senior Pentagon official said. Earlier this week, Jake Sullivan, President Biden’s national security adviser, said Russia would likely send “tens of thousands of soldiers to the front line in Ukraine’s east” in the coming week.
Some perspective on what 30,000 troops means. Or even 70,000 if they manage to bring all their troops from the Kyiv front all the way around through Belarus and Russia for deployment in eastern Ukraine. Which is a long way to move military equipment. A lot of which will need major repair and refitting.

First the size of Ukraine. Ukraine is 233,062 square miles. To give some US context that is equal to the combined area of NY, PA, OH, VA, ME, and VT

New York 54,555 square miles
Pennsylvania 46,054 square miles
Ohio 44,826 square miles
Virginia 42,775 square miles
Maine 35,380 square miles
Vermont 9,616 square miles
----------------------------------------
Total 233,206 square miles

And if you subtract NYC, Ukraine has about the same population and number of towns and cities as those 6 states combined.

On just the western front during WW2 the US, British, and other allied forces invaded France and pushed on into Germany with a combined force of 4.5 million men. That's not even counting the Soviet armies. Germany (today) has a total size of 137,000 square miles (it was larger during WW2 but still not as large as Ukraine). And US began the initial occupation of just their half of Germany (about 1/4 the size of Ukraine) with a force of 1.5 million men.

The NYPD has over 35,000 uniformed officers and another 20,000 or so support and clerical staff. And that is to patrol a city of 300 square miles in peacetime.

Ukraine reportedly now has over 10 anti-tank missiles for every Russian tank. And more arms of every form are pouring in including lots of anti-aircraft weaponry. And they building their forces as fast as they can train and equip new recruits and volunteers. Russia might be able to consolidate its hold over the border regions of the Donbass. But every additional mile they push into Ukraine lengthens their supply lines and make them more vulnerable to guerilla attack and counter-attack. And with spring approaching the Ukrainians will have the additional advantage of foliage for concealment from the air as a lot of that landscape is wooded.

Russia might be able to wreak enormous destruction in Ukraine. But I don't see how they have the forces to conquer let alone hold large parts of it. And with all the reports of atrocities and targeting of civilian infrastructure, it seems unlikely that the Ukrainians will be in the mood to cede any territory to Russia as part of peace negotiations. And without a peace agreement no Russian will be safe anywhere in Ukraine.
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A fool can throw out more questions than a wise man can answer. -RZehr
Szdfan

Re: Russia Invades Ukraine 2022

Post by Szdfan »

Ken wrote: ↑Thu Apr 07, 2022 12:06 am
On just the western front during WW2 the US, British, and other allied forces invaded France and pushed on into Germany with a combined force of 4.5 million men. That's not even counting the Soviet armies. Germany (today) has a total size of 137,000 square miles (it was larger during WW2 but still not as large as Ukraine). And US began the initial occupation of just their half of Germany (about 1/4 the size of Ukraine) with a force of 1.5 million men.
A quarter of Germany. Germany and Berlin were divided into four zones of occupation between the Allies and the Soviets.
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temporal1

Re: Russia Invades Ukraine 2022

Post by temporal1 »

nett wrote: ↑Wed Apr 06, 2022 10:40 am .. Beyond video games, violent movies, and television further desensitize younger people to violence and death, and make it easier to push the button the drop that bomb. It's really sad.
The NYT is extremely depressing.
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Neto

Re: Russia Invades Ukraine 2022

Post by Neto »

Probably killings of captured soldiers on both sides, this one by mercenaries fighting for Ukraine:
https://www.bbc.com/news/61025388

I'm reminded of King David's on-going inability to control some of the "loose canons" who joined his gang while he was on the run from the murderous King Saul.
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Dan Z

Re: Russia Invades Ukraine 2022

Post by Dan Z »

Szdfan wrote: ↑Thu Apr 07, 2022 7:57 am
Ken wrote: ↑Thu Apr 07, 2022 12:06 am
On just the western front during WW2 the US, British, and other allied forces invaded France and pushed on into Germany with a combined force of 4.5 million men. That's not even counting the Soviet armies. Germany (today) has a total size of 137,000 square miles (it was larger during WW2 but still not as large as Ukraine). And US began the initial occupation of just their half of Germany (about 1/4 the size of Ukraine) with a force of 1.5 million men.
A quarter of Germany. Germany and Berlin were divided into four zones of occupation between the Allies and the Soviets.
It's worth noting, however, that modern warfare is more technology-driven, and thus much less manpower intensive. The US invaded Iraq with about 200K troops - not far from the 180K Russia had amassed prior to the invasion. Still a lot of potential hurt amassed in Ukraine! (Aside question - the NYTimes article listed about 70K Russian troops in play - where did that additional 100K go?)
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