Excessive violence in schools

[temporal1]

When someone tells you who they are (over+over) believe them.

[Josh]

Once again you miss the point of what I'm saying. It isn't about caring for these two individuals and I don't particularly.

It is about building an education system and society that produces far less of them. Some of us are interested in living in a far less violent society. You don't think that would be a good thing and worthy goal?

I'm pretty sure the problems start at home, not the "school system" (although a school system allowing 15 year olds to beat down a child is certainly not helping things).

In general, Americans have a lot of "freedom", including the freedom to fornicate, get pregnant out of wedlock, raise children without a father in their lives, and then expect the government/welfare to provide for all their needs. This is the core of the problem.

[Ken]

Once again you miss the point of what I'm saying. It isn't about caring for these two individuals and I don't particularly.

It is about building an education system and society that produces far less of them. Some of us are interested in living in a far less violent society. You don't think that would be a good thing and worthy goal?

I'm pretty sure the problems start at home, not the "school system" (although a school system allowing 15 year olds to beat down a child is certainly not helping things).

In general, Americans have a lot of "freedom", including the freedom to fornicate, get pregnant out of wedlock, raise children without a father in their lives, and then expect the government/welfare to provide for all their needs. This is the core of the problem.

Yes, the generosity of social welfare programs definitely correlates with an increase in youth violence. That is why countries like Finland and Sweden who have much more generous social welfare programs also have such higher rates of youth violence and youth incarceration than the US.

Oh...wait.



Source: https://www.unodc.org/documents/data-an ... ustice.pdf

[Josh]

Ken,

So you're saying if we changed our government to be more like Russia, we'd have less youth violence?

Odd case

[Ken]

Ken,

So you're saying if we changed our government to be more like Russia, we'd have less youth violence?

Odd case

Apparently Russia isn't so quick to imprison its youth as we are. But Finland and Sweden are 10-17 times lower than Russia. It might be better to look at the best models not the mediocre ones.

[Josh]

Apparently Russia isn't so quick to imprison its youth as we are. But Finland and Sweden are 10-17 times lower than Russia. It might be better to look at the best models not the mediocre ones.

So, you're saying it's wrong to imprison youth who violently assault children?

[Ken]

Apparently Russia isn't so quick to imprison its youth as we are. But Finland and Sweden are 10-17 times lower than Russia. It might be better to look at the best models not the mediocre ones.

So, you're saying it's wrong to imprison youth who violently assault children?

Pay attention. I'm saying it is wrong to build a society in which so many youth need to be incarcerated in the first place.

And we already know that doing more of the same thing isn't working. We have been locking kids up and throwing away the key for decades now. How has that approach worked? Do you think if we just go from locking up our kids at a 95-times higher rate than Finland and elevating that to a 100-times higher rate than Finland we will solve the problem?

[Josh]

Pay attention. I'm saying it is wrong to build a society in which so many youth need to be incarcerated in the first place.

Slow down there, soldier. I haven't built any such society. So who has?

I will repeat what I said earlier - it is evil to think that older large males should get away with beating up young children and punching them in the head. They do need to be incarcerated, locked up, and prevented from hurting innocent victims again.

And we already know that doing more of the same thing isn't working. We have been locking kids up and throwing away the key for decades now. How has that approach worked? Do you think if we just go from locking up our kids at a 95-times higher rate than Finland and elevating that to a 100-times higher rate than Finland we will solve the problem?

Maybe Finland is composed of different types of people than America is. We can start with one obvious difference: Finns apparently desire to commit fewer violent crimes than the "average" American.

[Ken]

Pay attention. I'm saying it is wrong to build a society in which so many youth need to be incarcerated in the first place.

Slow down there, soldier. I haven't built any such society. So who has?

You are the one here who is arguing that the solution to youth violence is locking up kids and throwing away the key. Which doesn't seem to be working too well despite the fact that we have made ourselves the most prison-happy society on the planet. Maybe it is time to try something new?

We do not live in a total isolated vacuum on this planet. We have many examples of other countries around the world that have had far greater success at reducing youth violence and delinquency through other approaches. Maybe we should start learning from them. Maybe our kids aren't inherently worse than Finnish kids. Maybe we are just doing a much worse job in teaching them values, respect, and responsibility, and showing them the same.

[Josh]

Can you explain to me why forces outside of one’s control compel someone to go punch little children in the head, father children out of wedlock, mug, and steal? You seem to believe that people have almost no agency.

There are a lot of really poor people who don’t do the above things. The topic of concern is people who do.