Russia Invades Ukraine 2022

[Sudsy]

So, is the alternative then that [Putin] really is that ruthless in achieving his goals ? That sounds sooo cold to the sufferings of both his and other's people.

After the fall of South Vietnam in 75, as I began to see some of the political realities behind that war, as my patriotic gungho attitude toward war faded away, I had to think of how those in power in the States had just kept right on sending young men to their deaths in a war they had already decided not to win, but just kept on doing it until they could "do it with honor". Is there any honor in that at all, even politically speaking? I could think of a lot a ways to criticize President Putin, but in that sense alone, he just doesn't seem any worse that all of the others.

True. The pride of all sinful men is often what drives their ruthless sinning. Easy to point out the sin in others and not see similarities in ourselves.

[JimFoxvog]

I am regularly around people 80+ who are very sharp. Something is going wrong with Biden.

It's called Republican political attacks.

Yes, it's been public knowledge a long time he has speed problems.

[Valerie]

I am regularly around people 80+ who are very sharp. Something is going wrong with Biden.

It's called Republican political attacks.

Yes, it's been public knowledge a long time he has speed problems.

How do you think he comes across to world leaders?

[Valerie]

It is also true that a significant amount of the middle class that opposes Putin has left Russia in the past month for Finland, Armenia and Georgia.

What percentage is significant amount?

I've seen estimates between 100,000 and 200,000.

Just today, a Russian Mennonite friend told me its liberal Russians leaving

[Ken]

So, is the alternative then that [Putin] really is that ruthless in achieving his goals ? That sounds sooo cold to the sufferings of both his and other's people.

After the fall of South Vietnam in 75, as I began to see some of the political realities behind that war, as my patriotic gungho attitude toward war faded away, I had to think of how those in power in the States had just kept right on sending young men to their deaths in a war they had already decided not to win, but just kept on doing it until they could "do it with honor". Is there any honor in that at all, even politically speaking? I could think of a lot a ways to criticize President Putin, but in that sense alone, he just doesn't seem any worse that all of the others.

The Vietnam war was an unmitigated evil that tore an an enormous wound through two countries and cultures that took decades to begin to repair. I remember when I was in college in the early 1980s and there was a Vet center on the same block as my apartment. So many damaged young men (still young then) seeking help to repair their damaged lives and psyches. Struggling with substance abuse, PTSD, broken relationships, homelessness, etc.

After this war we are going to see:

• Millions of families displaced, many homeless in foreign lands, or homeless in their own country due to the utter destruction of so many towns and cities.
• Millions of lives, careers, businesses, and futures disrupted or destroyed.
• Tens of thousands of families with missing loved ones. And tens of thousands more who are wounded physically and psychologically
• Millions of children who have been uprooted, traumatized, had their education and development disrupted, who might now or soon be struggling to maintain schooling perhaps in foreign languages that they don't understand, who have lost parents and siblings, and who will never catch up and recover their childhoods again.
• Cities and towns that will take decades and hundreds of billions of dollars to repair and that will never be the same given how many ancient and historic structures and neighborhoods have been reduced to rubble
• Increased ethnic hatred across the region as peoples who once lived together as neighbors will be driven further apart by the ethnic politics and conflict. Neighbors will hate neighbors and the simmering conflicts will take decades to die back down.
• Tens of thousands of young poor Russian draftees who have been traumatized by a brutal military training system and the cauldron of war will return wounded to their home communities without support. Many of whom will descend into substance abuse, broken lives, and violent relationships like so many of our own veterans here at home. Although likely worse as the support for veterans is far worse in Russia than the US.
• Increased militarism and military spending across the entire continent for decades to come

All largely because of the evil ambitions of one man. Who chose to launch this war instead of seeking peaceful avenues to resolve conflicts.

[Ken]

What percentage is significant amount?

I've seen estimates between 100,000 and 200,000.

Just today, a Russian Mennonite friend told me its liberal Russians leaving

It is liberal and conservative young men from across all strata of society who are leaving now to avoid the next round of military conscription which runs on an annual cycle from April 1 to July 15.

[ken_sylvania]

I am regularly around people 80+ who are very sharp. Something is going wrong with Biden.

It's called Republican political attacks.

Yes, it's been public knowledge a long time he has speed problems.

I have to say it surprises me to hear you claim that the President has a drug problem. I thought you were supposed to be a flaming liberal!

[Sudsy]

I am regularly around people 80+ who are very sharp. Something is going wrong with Biden.

It's called Republican political attacks.

Yes, it's been public knowledge a long time he has speed problems.

I thought he would have a personal driver at his age and position. Actually, I don't think a president is allowed to drive a car.

[temporal1]

After the fall of South Vietnam in 75, as I began to see some of the political realities behind that war, as my patriotic gungho attitude toward war faded away, I had to think of how those in power in the States had just kept right on sending young men to their deaths in a war they had already decided not to win, but just kept on doing it until they could "do it with honor".

Is there any honor in that at all, even politically speaking?
I could think of a lot a ways to criticize President Putin, but in that sense alone, he just doesn't seem any worse that all of the others.

o.Neto.
i was never gungho about Vietnam, nor was my family or anyone i knew, even people who were retired military were horrified.
your words here remind me of what it was like, AND WHAT I NOW FEAR in Ukraine. horrible egos and politics sending young men to their deaths. most who survive are wounded, if not physically, mentally.

The U.S. did not start the conflict/war in Vietnam, but NOBODY overlooks U.S. protracted involvement for blame.
Having an identified Evil One does NOT grant anyone a free pass to respond with as much violence+destruction as they so choose.

i’m really surprised this line of reasoning continues for 100+ pages on this particular forum.
Russia was identified as the invading country in the subject line, OP, first page, every page. There is no confusion.


as for biden, he’s doing poorly, but his gaffs are his signature trademark, throughout his long political career.
obama seemed to have no regard for him as VP. i never believed obama chose biden.
that was a party decision. so often, one poor decision leads to another.

looking at the DNC bench, tho, biden is not worst, even in present condition.

[JimFoxvog]

I am regularly around people 80+ who are very sharp. Something is going wrong with Biden.

It's called Republican political attacks.

Yes, it's been public knowledge a long time he has speed problems.

I have to say it surprises me to hear you claim that the President has a drug problem. I thought you were supposed to be a flaming liberal!

Yes, I have typing problems, so I can identify. "Speech" was what I intended to type.

Who thinks I am a flaming liberal?!