Gender confusion

[ken_sylvania]

3. When it comes to schools and education. Should public schools provide a welcoming and supportive environment for EVERY student regardless of religion, ethnicity, race, language, disability, or sexual orientation? Yes, they should. Not just on principal but by law. All parents should be able to expect and demand that their child is welcomed and supported in the classroom and not bullied or made to feel unwelcome regardless of their faith, ethnicity, language, disability, etc. And yes this includes LGBT students.

And bullies and murderers too?

[Ken]

3. When it comes to schools and education. Should public schools provide a welcoming and supportive environment for EVERY student regardless of religion, ethnicity, race, language, disability, or sexual orientation? Yes, they should. Not just on principal but by law. All parents should be able to expect and demand that their child is welcomed and supported in the classroom and not bullied or made to feel unwelcome regardless of their faith, ethnicity, language, disability, etc. And yes this includes LGBT students.

And bullies and murderers too?

Bullies should be welcomed yes. But not their behavior. I have found that it generally isn't an innate character trait of the child but that they are acting out for some other reason. Perhaps they are abused at home or have a difficult home life. Perhaps they don't fit in for some other reason and they act out. So the job of the teacher is to redirect them and address their needs in more productive ways. Once in a very rare while you might encounter students who are true psychopaths who lack empathy and there isn't much you can do with them except keep an eye on them.

As for students who are murderers? I would expect they would normally be in a more structured juvenile detention setting. But if the state saw fit to put them back into your classroom then yes, your job is to make them feel welcome like any other student.

[Josh]

All parents should be able to expect and demand that their child is welcomed and supported in the classroom and not bullied or made to feel unwelcome regardless of their faith, ethnicity, language, disability, etc. And yes this includes LGBT students.

Should all parents expect that their child's school will have a secret closet so their child can change into the opposite sex's clothes without their parents' knowledge?

[Ken]

All parents should be able to expect and demand that their child is welcomed and supported in the classroom and not bullied or made to feel unwelcome regardless of their faith, ethnicity, language, disability, etc. And yes this includes LGBT students.

Should all parents expect that their child's school will have a secret closet so their child can change into the opposite sex's clothes without their parents' knowledge?

That falls under my point three. No, schools shouldn't be doing anything other than teaching equity in a broad general civics-minded way (religion, ethnicity, race, sexual orientation, disabilities, etc.) and then supporting the choices of the parents when it comes to dress, religion, diet, etc. What you are describing would be no different than, for example, a school secretly feeding Muslim children bacon against the wishes of the parents. Or schools changing the names of their students to give them "Christian names" against the parent's wishes as used to happen in Indian boarding schools. Or to make a more direct parallel, a school providing a secret closet of secular clothes so that Amish or Muslim children can change at school without their parent's knowledge or consent. Schools shouldn't be doing any of that stuff.

[ken_sylvania]

3. When it comes to schools and education. Should public schools provide a welcoming and supportive environment for EVERY student regardless of religion, ethnicity, race, language, disability, or sexual orientation? Yes, they should. Not just on principal but by law. All parents should be able to expect and demand that their child is welcomed and supported in the classroom and not bullied or made to feel unwelcome regardless of their faith, ethnicity, language, disability, etc. And yes this includes LGBT students.

And bullies and murderers too?

Bullies should be welcomed yes. But not their behavior. I have found that it generally isn't an innate character trait of the child but that they are acting out for some other reason. Perhaps they are abused at home or have a difficult home life. Perhaps they don't fit in for some other reason and they act out. So the job of the teacher is to redirect them and address their needs in more productive ways. Once in a very rare while you might encounter students who are true psychopaths who lack empathy and there isn't much you can do with them except keep an eye on them.

Perhaps LGBT students could also be welcomed without welcoming their behavior. And perhaps the teacher could help to redirect them.

[Ken]

And bullies and murderers too?

Bullies should be welcomed yes. But not their behavior. I have found that it generally isn't an innate character trait of the child but that they are acting out for some other reason. Perhaps they are abused at home or have a difficult home life. Perhaps they don't fit in for some other reason and they act out. So the job of the teacher is to redirect them and address their needs in more productive ways. Once in a very rare while you might encounter students who are true psychopaths who lack empathy and there isn't much you can do with them except keep an eye on them.

Perhaps LGBT students could also be welcomed without welcoming their behavior. And perhaps the teacher could help to redirect them.

Well yes, if gay students are having gay sex or doing other inappropriate physical behavior in the classroom you would nip that in the bud just like you would for straight students. Being gay doesn't give them a license to get away with stuff that you wouldn't let straight students get away with. It isn't really that complicated.

[ohio jones]

No, schools shouldn't be doing anything other than teaching equity in a broad general civics-minded way (religion, ethnicity, race, sexual orientation, disabilities, etc.) and then supporting the choices of the parents when it comes to dress, religion, diet, etc.

So what about the Mennonite girl who wore jeans under her long skirt, and on arrival at public school took the skirt off and put it in her locker for the day. Should the teachers act in loco parentis and enforce the dress preferences of the parents?

[Ken]

No, schools shouldn't be doing anything other than teaching equity in a broad general civics-minded way (religion, ethnicity, race, sexual orientation, disabilities, etc.) and then supporting the choices of the parents when it comes to dress, religion, diet, etc.

So what about the Mennonite girl who wore jeans under her long skirt, and on arrival at public school took the skirt off and put it in her locker for the day. Should the teachers act in loco parentis and enforce the dress preferences of the parents?

Kids do that kind of thing every single day in probably every school in the country. What do you think is the percentage of teenage girls who show up at school dressed differently than when they left the house? Higher than you might expect. Kids (especially girls) trade clothes all the time. As long as the child is in dress code I'm not sure it is the place of the school to be policing what they wear. That is different from a SCHOOL-PROVIDED secret closet of clothes for students to change into which is what Josh was referencing.

The school I teach at gets occasional calls from mothers (always mothers) who tell the school secretary something like the following: "I'm sick of fighting with my daughter about what she wears to school. But can you have someone check to make sure she is actually in dress code and write her up for dress code violation if she is not?" The school keeps a stack of school sweats and hoodies for students who are caught in dress code violation and they have to either change or spend the day in in-school-suspension. So we actually have moms turning their own kids in for dress code violations.

So yes, schools do, to some extent, enforce the fashion choices of parents but mostly to just enforce dress codes, not every fashion choice. That would be endless.

[barnhart]

A parent visited unexpectedly while I was doing my student teaching. Very quickly the girl with the extremely short skirt rolled down the leggings that were hidden beneath. So yes, kids do this stuff.

[Ken]

A parent visited unexpectedly while I was doing my student teaching. Very quickly the girl with the extremely short skirt rolled down the leggings that were hidden beneath. So yes, kids do this stuff.

Heh. Early in my teaching career the biology teacher across the hall from me had a student teacher from Baylor who was a tall, blonde, and very attractive sorority type girl. Our doors were generally open so I could see across the hall to the other classroom from my teacher's desk. One day an older and very non-nonsense female assistant principal walked by and stood in the doorway of the other room to watch for a moment. Then she interrupted the class and called the student teacher out to the hallway, shut the door to that classroom, waved her hand up and down at how the student teacher was dressed and said "No hon, this isn't going to work in this school. Those boys in there do not need to see you dressed like this. Why don't you pack up your stuff, go home, and try again tomorrow."

It was early Sept in Waco and the temps were still pushing 100 and she was dressed a fairly short skirt, sleeveless top, and sandals. Probably pretty normal warm weather college campus wear but Mrs. Evans was having NONE OF IT with these young women, and after probably 40 years of being a HS administrator was not inclined to discuss the nuances of professional dress with a sorority girl. If SHE sent you home you went home and didn't argue!

That was the one and only time I ever saw a teacher get sent home for dress code violation!