No human remains found 2 years after claims of ‘mass graves’ in Canada

[barnhart]

T1 as I recall about 1/3 of Canadians are Catholic. I wouldn't try to portray them as a persecuted minority. But I don't support burning churches, I hope those people are held to account.

[temporal1]

T1 as I recall about 1/3 of Canadians are Catholic. I wouldn't try to portray them as a persecuted minority. But I don't support burning churches, I hope those people are held to account.

i have no idea of percentages, my sense is, the overall lib Canadian government has no respect for Catholics or Christians, which, in the past, may well have been the opposite. When i was young, it was a positive in courts to be Christian.

i’m not suggesting “persecuted minority.”
In the video, there was a reference of one church having only 3-4 attendees, thus, plans to rebuild seem impossible.

The burned churches were in many locations, i presume with various active members.

However, even if the churches were well attended and wealthy, a majority population, arson is a crime and sin/moral failure. Right?

[Bootstrap]

I'm surprised to see some Christians argue that the government should take children away from their parents and put them into schools that teach what the government wants them to be taught.

Sometimes that has to happen, like in cases of severe neglect or abuse, and if the parents formerly homeschooled etc their new foster family may have to put them in public school.

But that's not what this program was. Not even remotely. And kids were sexually and physically abused in the schools.

https://indigenousfoundations.arts.ubc. ... ol_system/

The term residential schools refers to an extensive school system set up by the Canadian government and administered by churches that had the nominal objective of educating Indigenous children but also the more damaging and equally explicit objectives of indoctrinating them into Euro-Canadian and Christian ways of living and assimilating them into mainstream white Canadian society. The residential school system officially operated from the 1880s into the closing decades of the 20th century. The system forcibly separated children from their families for extended periods of time and forbade them to acknowledge their Indigenous heritage and culture or to speak their own languages. Children were severely punished if these, among other, strict rules were broken. Former students of residential schools have spoken of horrendous abuse at the hands of residential school staff: physical, sexual, emotional, and psychological. Residential schools provided Indigenous students with inappropriate education, often only up to lower grades, that focused mainly on prayer and manual labour in agriculture, light industry such as woodworking, and domestic work such as laundry work and sewing.

So what if the government did this to our kids? Took our children away, punished them if they pray or read the Bible or speak Deitsch or learn biblical Greek, refuse to let them acknowledge their faith. What if our kids were the ones who were suffering this kind of abuse?

Golden rule time: is this the way we would want to be treated?

[Bootstrap]

Of course that’s not good. But when claims of mass graves are made, but there aren’t actually any mass graves, that’s the wrong place to start.

But there were. Lots of them. Look at the links I provided.

Yes, at some places they did not find mass graves. At a lot more, they did.

[Bootstrap]

Stockland suggested a cultural divide is at work in the efforts to recover history: Non-Indigenous Canadians approach the claims of unmarked graves as “forensic matters subject to the procedures of criminal investigation, evidence-gathering, and proof beyond reasonable doubt.” But in his view, “many Indigenous leaders make clear repeatedly that the search for children in graves is not about bodily validation of that mistreatment. It’s about mourning the dead: dead children, that is, lost and too often forgotten ancestors.”

Do you think gathering evidence and finding proof is a good thing or not?

Absolutely.

But that means finding what happened to the kids who disappeared. And mourning the kids who disappeared, not making excuses or acting like their lives didn't matter.

[Bootstrap]

T1 as I recall about 1/3 of Canadians are Catholic. I wouldn't try to portray them as a persecuted minority. But I don't support burning churches, I hope those people are held to account.

I agree. Burning churches is not OK.

Neither is kidnapping people's kids in order to indoctrinate them. And then losing track of what happened to the children.

[Ken]

No one (or almost no one) supports burning churches.

I watched the video and none of the native people interviewed supported the burning of churches. They were angered and disappointed by it.

What they did say say was that given the long history of abuse and mistreatment of their community at the hands of the church, they did understand where the anger was coming from. Even if they disagreed with how some are expressing it.

Arson is an extremely difficult crime to solve especially if there are no witnesses. There is a reason why they do it in the middle of the night when no one is around and not at 12 noon on a Sunday afternoon. You might suspect certain people but proving it is something different.

In any event, the church is not about buildings anyway, or shouldn't be. I don't think there is a single reference towards churches as buildings anywhere in the New Testament. The Jewish temple, yes. But not Christian churches.

[temporal1]

My intent in sharing the video was:
To point out vigilante-type arson crimes committed due to FALSE reporting. fortunately, no loss of life, including arsonists, so far.
i’m not sure the church burnings are over. “Dozens” as of the video.

In my lifetime, there have been “spates” of church burnings in various locations, not just Catholic churches in Canada.

Churches make tempting targets.

OP, P.1:

“The revelation that the story was likely untrue all along comes only after anti-Catholic criminals committed hundreds of acts of hatred and vandalism against Catholic churches over the false accusation. In addition, leading figures on the political and cultural left have made the unfounded story a central part of heated rhetoric against Catholics.”

“After two years of horror stories about the alleged mass graves of Indigenous children at residential schools across Canada, a series of recent excavations at suspected sites has turned up no human remains,” the New York Post reported Thursday.

i think it’s ok to be happy these accusations were unfounded.
It’s known not all accusations are unfounded, it’s known, sin+atrocities happen EVERYWHERE mankind goes.

Without “moving the goalposts,” in this case, 1) no human remains were found, AND, 2) serious crimes were committed following accusations.

[Josh]

Absolutely.

But that means finding what happened to the kids who disappeared. And mourning the kids who disappeared, not making excuses or acting like their lives didn't matter.

There are a lot of missing kids all over the world throughout history.

Finding out what happened means applying forensic techniques. Yet the article you cited criticised forensic techniques as somehow being “culturally insensitive”.

Overall, I don’t think blaming the RCC for mass graves and missing kids is really the right guilty party here. And the response of burning down RCC parishes doesn’t seem like the right response, either. A good question is who, exactly, is doing that, and what their political agenda is.

[Bootstrap]

Absolutely.

But that means finding what happened to the kids who disappeared. And mourning the kids who disappeared, not making excuses or acting like their lives didn't matter.

There are a lot of missing kids all over the world throughout history.

Finding out what happened means applying forensic techniques. Yet the article you cited criticised forensic techniques as somehow being “culturally insensitive”.

Overall, I don’t think blaming the RCC for mass graves and missing kids is really the right guilty party here. And the response of burning down RCC parishes doesn’t seem like the right response, either. A good question is who, exactly, is doing that, and what their political agenda is.

The article was saying this: The RCC took these kids and the parents never found out what happened to them. The children were in the custody of these schools. That means that the schools are responsible for them.

It's a insensitive to say "we didn't find the bodies at this particular school, so that means there is no problem". Even if they didn't find the bodies, the fact that children were forcibly removed from their homes and disappeared is a problem. A lack of "forensic evidence" doesn't mean there was no crime, it merely means the crime was not solved. These children really were taken from their parents. They really did disappear. In many, manyu places mass graves were found. Burning down RCC parishes is also a crime. Yesterday's crimes do not justify today's crimes. Today's crimes do not justify yesterday's crimes.

But given a choice, I care more about children than buildings. I would hate it if someone burned down my church. It would be much, much worse if they kidnapped my children in order to "reeducate" them to the beliefs of mainstream society, and I never found out what happened to my children. Especially when there was well documented evidence of sexual and physical abuse in these schools.

Would you want them to do this to your children? Even if it was just forcibly removing them and putting them in a modern Catholic school?