Global Warning/Climate Change

[Robert]

Woke up at 5 AM by some chipmunk chewing int he attic. Could not get back to sleep. I hit Youtube for something boring. I found a few videos I think were very interesting. Kept me awake for several hours.

[video][/video]

Here is one about sea level.

[video][/video]

[appleman2006]

Connected with the increased temperature is ice melting causing sea level rise. Some island nations will disappear, and coastal cities around the world, with huge populations, will be flooded and the population will have to move.

Jim I am asking this as a serious question. I am not much of a scientist and I am sure there is a practical answer that makes sense to this question but I just do not know it.

I have always understood that liquid expands when it freezes so how does it work that melting ice raises the sea level? Would it not actually work the other way around? Again I recognise this may be a really stupid question but I really want to know.

[Robert]

I have always understood that liquid expands when it freezes so how does it work that melting ice raises the sea level? Would it not actually work the other way around?

One of the scientists that I posted a video from stated that ice in water that melts, as int he north pole will not raise sea levels since it is in the water already. Only ice from land and running off to the oceans will raise sea levels. While some of that is happening, the amount is no where near the levels that will cause rapid massive damage.

[appleman2006]

I have always understood that liquid expands when it freezes so how does it work that melting ice raises the sea level? Would it not actually work the other way around?

One of the scientists that I posted a video from stated that ice in water that melts, as int he north pole will not raise sea levels since it is in the water already. Only ice from land and running off to the oceans will raise sea levels. While some of that is happening, the amount is no where near the levels that will cause rapid massive damage.

Interesting. That does make sense. However I am still thinking that the vast majority of ice percentage wise will actually be over water. And over water levels would actually decrease. It is stuff like this that still makes me think there is far more fear mongering going on than we might actually like to admit.

[temporal1]

I have always understood that liquid expands when it freezes so how does it work that melting ice raises the sea level? Would it not actually work the other way around?

One of the scientists that I posted a video from stated that ice in water that melts, as int he north pole will not raise sea levels since it is in the water already. Only ice from land and running off to the oceans will raise sea levels. While some of that is happening, the amount is no where near the levels that will cause rapid massive damage.

Interesting. That does make sense. However I am still thinking that the vast majority of ice percentage wise will actually be over water. And over water levels would actually decrease. It is stuff like this that still makes me think there is far more fear mongering going on than we might actually like to admit.

When billions in profit are at stake, the temptation to color reality is great.

As well, mankind should have a healthy respect (fear) of man’s limited reasoning.
Heaven knows, plenty of well-intentioned big mistakes in history.

For instance, what-if we are on the cusp of a general global cooling period, AND, human interference hastens and increases it? Having endured the 70’s “cooling,” i definitely don’t want “worse” than what might naturally occur. How would anyone know? If scientists knew, would they be honest about it? Would politicians+media report honestly? .. ok, laughter.

[JimFoxvog]

Connected with the increased temperature is ice melting causing sea level rise. Some island nations will disappear, and coastal cities around the world, with huge populations, will be flooded and the population will have to move.

Jim I am asking this as a serious question. I am not much of a scientist and I am sure there is a practical answer that makes sense to this question but I just do not know it.

I have always understood that liquid expands when it freezes so how does it work that melting ice raises the sea level? Would it not actually work the other way around? Again I recognise this may be a really stupid question but I really want to know.

Not a stupid question. Water (not liquid in general) is most dense a few degrees above freezing, but ice crystal structure is less dense so it floats. So you are quite right in your thinking. A glass full to the top with ice water will not overflow when the ice melts.

The ice melting in the Arctic Ocean causes the planet to warm faster, as water does not reflect the sun nearly as much as ice does, but it won't raise sea level.

The melting ice that can cause the sea level to rise is sitting on the land beneath it, not floating. If all the ice on Greenland melted it would raise sea level about 23 feet; if all the ice covering Antarctica, Greenland, and mountain glaciers around the world were to melt, sea level would rise about 70 meters (230 feet).

[Robert]

If all the ice on Greenland melted it would raise sea level about 23 feet

https://realclimatescience.com/2018/04/ ... greenland/

Over the past 19 months, more than one trillion tons of new ice has formed on Greenland’s surface. This is because a lot more new snow accumulates each year during the long winter, than melts during the short summer.

[JimFoxvog]

Here's what Nation Geographic says on Greenland's ice:

That's because, despite the fact that this particular glacier is growing, the whole Greenland ice sheet is still losing lots and lots of ice. Jakobshavn drains only about seven percent of the entire ice sheet, so even if it were growing robustly, mass loss from the rest of the ice sheet would outweigh its slight expansion.https://www.nationalgeographic.com/envi ... e-growing/

This one from Marketwatch and Associated Press:

Like nearly every other glacier on Greenland, the massive Kangerlussuaq is melting. In fact, the giant frozen island has seen one of its biggest melts on record this year. https://www.marketwatch.com/story/nasa- ... 2019-08-15

The consensus seems to be Greenland is losing more ice than it's gaining.

[JimFoxvog]

I was reading more about the Greenland ice sheet. This is from this September:

And using new satellite data, we show that – once all ice sheet processes are factored in for the past year – the Greenland ice sheet saw a net decline of 329bn tonnes in ice.https://www.carbonbrief.org/guest-post- ... ed-in-2019

[Robert]

Nasa seems to suggest that it is not decreasing. Even if it is, the rate is not enough to really affect sea level.