Global Warning/Climate Change

[Robert]

We got a bit of snow yesterday and are getting a few more inches today, but the models were right; this was predicted days ago.

The climate change models predicted an early winter for Michigan?

[RZehr]

Where I live, snow equals dollars. It’s desert, and the farms are all watered snowmelt via reservoirs and canals. And then there are the ski resorts that depend on it as well.
Even though I don’t farm or ski personally, I am glad to see fresh snow-capped mountains. More the better up there, some years we don’t have sufficient.

[JimFoxvog]

We got a bit of snow yesterday and are getting a few more inches today, but the models were right; this was predicted days ago.

The climate change models predicted an early winter for Michigan?

I'm in Illinois.

The climate change models I'm aware of do not give specifics for individual years; they are about the broad trend. The last four years being the four warmest years on record are in accord with the models that I know of. They do not predict lack of variation; not every year will be a new record, but it's very likely the next decade will be warmer than this one.

NWS gives longer range forecasts. Most of the US is expected to be warmer than average the next three months.

[Robert]

The last four years being the four warmest years on record are in accord with the models that I know of.

And the earth was 10 degrees warmer during the Jurassic period.

They do not predict lack of variation; not every year will be a new record, but it's very likely the next decade will be warmer than this one.

And how is that a bad thing? We are coming out of a cooler cycle, so it is normal for things to grow warmer. Warmer is better. More warmth, more co2. More co2 more plants. More plants, more food. More food, less starving. Less starving, less wars.

[RZehr]

The earth long ago was both a lot hotter, and a lot colder, than it is today.
I’ve never heard an environmentalist explain why it was okay back then, but isn’t okay again.
And how is the ideal global climate determined?

[MaxPC]

The earth long ago was both a lot hotter, and a lot colder, than it is today.
I’ve never heard an environmentalist explain why it was okay back then, but isn’t okay again.
And how is the ideal global climate determined?

My wife says it's determined by our heating bill and cooling bill.

[Josh]

The earth long ago was both a lot hotter, and a lot colder, than it is today.
I’ve never heard an environmentalist explain why it was okay back then, but isn’t okay again.
And how is the ideal global climate determined?

The ideal global climate to a leftist is one where they get to raise taxes and control every aspect of your life.

[temporal1]

The earth long ago was both a lot hotter, and a lot colder, than it is today.
I’ve never heard an environmentalist explain why it was okay back then, but isn’t okay again.
And how is the ideal global climate determined?

(i believe) the reason they cling to is the human factor.
they refuse to acknowledge that any humans outside their circle of thinking have any interest in responsible stewardship, they address “others” as the enemy, refuse to acknowledge alternative methods of stewardship, etc. - as exhibited throughout this thread.

their circle of thinking is based on wealth redistribution, great wealth going to them+their friends, who abide in ultimate earthly luxuries. forever+ever, amen.

throughout history, the masses have always been ruled by the wealthy ruling elite, kings+pharaohs, dictators, i suspect this is the earthly default, the western 20th Century middle class anomaly may not be long remembered. the odds are probably against it.

interesting phenomena is, today’s masses seem to be proactively voting for such rule, rather than being overcome by force. “i beg you, please enslave me!” “more! more!”

The earth long ago was both a lot hotter, and a lot colder, than it is today.
I’ve never heard an environmentalist explain why it was okay back then, but isn’t okay again.
And how is the ideal global climate determined?

The ideal global climate to a leftist is one where they get to raise taxes and control every aspect of your life.

you omitted 1 part of the trifecta:
1. raise taxes
2. control YOUR life
3. enrich themselves, protect+empower themselves, and their CLASS.

that particular formula, kings+thralls, may be old as time.
it would be very surprising if it does not prevail. humans are creatures of habit.

free society, esp with a comfortable and powerful, hopeful middle class, was an experiment, with no guarantees. U.S. founders designed what they could, then left it with a big,
“good luck keeping it!”

imperfect and thought to be deteriorating, loads of people continue to be willing to sacrifice all in attempt to be part of it.

hope is a powerful motivator.
the important part is knowing just where to abide in Hope.

[JimFoxvog]

The earth long ago was both a lot hotter, and a lot colder, than it is today.
I’ve never heard an environmentalist explain why it was okay back then, but isn’t okay again.
And how is the ideal global climate determined?

I think it is mostly human-centered reasoning. The distant past you are talking about was when there was not a large human population. With the current and projected population the droughts, the storms, and the heat that requires air conditioning for survival will affect many more people, resulting in the deaths of a significant portion of humanity directly and indirectly through wars.

But there are also many environmentalists who have an emotional attachment to the survival of other species. We're told there have been mass extinctions in the past, and that we are at the beginning of another mass extinction.

I'm not sure I've heard that "it was okay back then". I'm also ignorant of people determining an ideal global climate. But there's a deep-based conservativism: we don't want change; we are comfortable the way things are now.

[JimFoxvog]

And how is that a bad thing? We are coming out of a cooler cycle, so it is normal for things to grow warmer. Warmer is better. More warmth, more co2. More co2 more plants. More plants, more food. More food, less starving. Less starving, less wars.

Good honest question, Robert.

Connected with the increased temperature is ice melting causing sea level rise. Some island nations will disappear, and coastal cities around the world, with huge populations, will be flooded and the population will have to move. But people in the more habitable places might not want the climate refugees to be moving to their neighborhood.

Increased temperatures and droughts will disrupt agriculture and increase wildfires. Increased energy in the system causes stronger storms. These cause human suffering. You might be right that some places will be able to grow more food, such as Canada and Siberia. Mass migrations will be resisted, I'd think.

Increased CO2 increases the acidity of the oceans, making coral and shellfish die. Maybe that doesn't matter too much?