Elon Musk. Twitter. Babylon Bee.

Things that are not part of politics happening presently and how we approach or address it as Anabaptists.
JohnH
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Re: Elon Musk. Twitter. Babylon Bee.

Post by JohnH »

Ken wrote: ↑Wed Mar 19, 2025 10:23 am
JohnH wrote: ↑Wed Mar 19, 2025 5:57 am Ken,

Have you heard of "common law"?
If we followed "common law" when it comes to property in this country then Native Americans would still possess 95% of North America.
Huh?

Land in America was acquired by treaties and then transferred to new owners via common law.

I find your assertion that property emanates from government to be specious. Property emanates from natural law and is part and parcel of how every normal human thinks and functions.
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Re: Elon Musk. Twitter. Babylon Bee.

Post by Bootstrap »

Robert wrote: ↑Tue Mar 18, 2025 12:13 pm I am wondering if you are so anti Trump that anything that seems a little positive becomes exaggerated in your view?
I don't think so. I don't think I am complaining about "anything that seems a little positive". Not even remotely. I know that nobody is entirely consistent, but to me, some people seem to be promoting Trumpism and MAGA much more than they promote anything else, including the Gospel. They question any source of fact that challenges it. Their support goes way beyond "a little positive".

Trump has become the central issue on MN. If the pro-Trump people would stop promoting Trump and MAGA, people like me would not be responding. But it's almost like culture wars is the true religion here. And that's not Mennonite at all.
Robert wrote: ↑Tue Mar 18, 2025 12:13 pmThe years of Obama and Biden I did not see the vitriol from those who opposed him.
They didn't? Sometimes they still do, with the kind of language I would never use against anyone. And they did at the time. Here's the difference: nobody set up threads to promote Obama or Biden the way they do for Trump and Musk and MAGA. Nobody was flooding the zone for Obama or Biden.
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1. Are we discussing the topic? Good.
2. Are we going around and around in a fight? Let's stop doing that.
3. Is there some serious wrongdoing or relational injury? Let's address that, probably not in public and certainly not for show.
Ken
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Re: Elon Musk. Twitter. Babylon Bee.

Post by Ken »

barnhart wrote: ↑Wed Mar 19, 2025 10:28 am
Robert wrote: ↑Wed Mar 19, 2025 9:48 am
barnhart wrote: ↑Wed Mar 19, 2025 6:51 am Stop paying property taxes and you will find out who really claims ownership.
I can pay my taxes and still disagree with the amount I am being taxed.
Certainly. But what does it say about claims of absolute individual ownership. I wouldn't have interjected if the argument was simply "I want to pay less", it's the "taxation violates my individual right of ownership" argument I am suspicious of.
Taxation isn't the taking of property. It is simply debt that you owe by virtue of membership in society. Taxes are really about debt and not property.

If you choose not to pay your debts (tax debts or any other kind of debt) then your property may, in fact, be seized to cover your debts. But this can happen with either the government, a private creditor like a bank, or a quasi-private entity like a HOA. If you run up debts that you don't pay the courts can seize your property, garnish your wages, and otherwise do what is necessary to satisfy your debts. In the past even your freedom was at stake. In the 19th century we had debtors prisons. And in biblical times there was debt slavery. By contrast, seizing property is pretty tame.
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Robert
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Re: Elon Musk. Twitter. Babylon Bee.

Post by Robert »

barnhart wrote: ↑Wed Mar 19, 2025 10:28 am
Certainly. But what does it say about claims of absolute individual ownership. I wouldn't have interjected if the argument was simply "I want to pay less", it's the "taxation violates my individual right of ownership" argument I am suspicious of.
When did I ever say that?
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Robert
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Re: Elon Musk. Twitter. Babylon Bee.

Post by Robert »

Bootstrap wrote: ↑Wed Mar 19, 2025 12:03 pm Trump has become the central issue on MN. If the pro-Trump people would stop promoting Trump and MAGA, people like me would not be responding.
I think if you took an honest look, most threads about Trump are started by people who disagree with him. I know of one positive thread about Trump. I also know of a similar positive thread about Biden.

I am not a really pro Trump person, but I find myself constantly defending because the claims made are false or greatly distorted. I would love to never have to defend a politician.

Just yesterday, I removed two Trump stickers my son put on my vehicles. I am in a very pro Trump area. I did not do it out of fear, but I have no desire to make a statement pro or con of a politician while I go to the grocery store. He also added a Fort Cavasos sticker that I plan to remove today.

So if you and Ernie stop starting threads about politics, there may be less desire to defend an extremist view being presented.

There are current events that are happening and politics will be a part of that, but bringing political articles here to start discussions will be responded to by others.
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Re: Elon Musk. Twitter. Babylon Bee.

Post by JimFoxvog »

JohnH wrote: ↑Wed Mar 19, 2025 11:15 am
Ken wrote: ↑Wed Mar 19, 2025 10:23 am If we followed "common law" when it comes to property in this country then Native Americans would still possess 95% of North America.
...
Land in America was acquired by treaties and then transferred to new owners via common law.
...
Treaties were often signed under duress and then illegally broken by the US government.
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JohnH
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Re: Elon Musk. Twitter. Babylon Bee.

Post by JohnH »

Ken wrote: ↑Wed Mar 19, 2025 12:07 pm Taxation isn't the taking of property. It is simply debt that you owe by virtue of membership in society. Taxes are really about debt and not property.
Debts are something you owe when you need to repay a loan. I don't recall "society" ever making me a loan.
If you choose not to pay your debts (tax debts or any other kind of debt) then your property may, in fact, be seized to cover your debts. But this can happen with either the government, a private creditor like a bank, or a quasi-private entity like a HOA. If you run up debts that you don't pay the courts can seize your property, garnish your wages, and otherwise do what is necessary to satisfy your debts. In the past even your freedom was at stake. In the 19th century we had debtors prisons. And in biblical times there was debt slavery. By contrast, seizing property is pretty tame.
Taxes are not debts, though. Taxes are taxes. If you want to wrangle words about it, I suppose you could claim that past-due, unpaid taxes become debts... but what they then are is a "tax debt".
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temporal1
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Re: Elon Musk. Twitter. Babylon Bee.

Post by temporal1 »

i learned about THE DAILY BONNET on MD, it’s been referenced various times, often by oj.

i often learn about lots of people+things on forum, i reject so much in the open airwaves.
i often will read something on forum i wouldn’t open elsewhere.

i learned about Dr Ben Carson, Thomas Sowell, Larry Elder on MD-MN. Voddie Baucham.
ditto with The Babylon Bee, when Adam Ford was still present.

i don’t read everything on forum. i read a lot of it. :D
i like the personal-opinion nature of it. with the common view of seeking Jesus at center, in all things.
even when stretched thin. :lol:

“Bidden or not bidden, God is present.”

2022 / Page 1: :wave:
temporal1 wrote: ↑Thu Apr 28, 2022 6:50 pm The Daily Bonnet
“Elon Musk Offers Free Cybertruck to Any Left-wingers Willing to Stay on Twitter”
https://dailybonnet.com/elon-musk-offer ... g-twitter/
SAN FRANCISCO, CA
Left-of-centre Twitter users have threatened to leave the platform en masse if the Elon Musk takeover goes through.
In an effort to placate the angry crowd, Musk has offered users a free Cybertruck including two free years of charging and a v-neck Tesla-branded t-shirt.

“I really want you to stay,” explaind Musk. “It’s true. I may not offer you a safe platform to share your views, but what I will give you is the world’s ugliest truck, so at least there’s that.”

In order to qualify, users will be asked to Photoshop MAGA hats onto all profile pics from now on. The new policy has created some concerns.

“I’d rather have affordable public transportation than a Cybertruck,” said one user, whose post was quickly removed under Twitter’s new ‘no progressive views’ policy.

Meanwhile, all 11 Mennonite Twitter users rapidly altered their profiles, so as not to pass up the opportunity to get a free truck …
even if it’s a Tesla.
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i’m perfectly comfortable with an older, wiser, more docile Trump.

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temporal1
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Re: Elon Musk. Twitter. Babylon Bee.

Post by temporal1 »

JohnH wrote: ↑Tue Mar 18, 2025 10:20 pm Property is an outcome of self-government and is a fundamental part of being human.

If you have some 3 year olds in a room, they will quickly decide whose stuff belongs to whom (and might come to an adult to request enforcement in the event of one of the 3 year olds not respecting the others' private property rights).
Fitting analogy. :blah:
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i’m perfectly comfortable with an older, wiser, more docile Trump.

”Try hard not to offend. Try harder not to be offended.” Robert Martz
Ken
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Re: Elon Musk. Twitter. Babylon Bee.

Post by Ken »

JohnH wrote: ↑Wed Mar 19, 2025 1:40 pm
Ken wrote: ↑Wed Mar 19, 2025 12:07 pm Taxation isn't the taking of property. It is simply debt that you owe by virtue of membership in society. Taxes are really about debt and not property.
Debts are something you owe when you need to repay a loan. I don't recall "society" ever making me a loan.
If you choose not to pay your debts (tax debts or any other kind of debt) then your property may, in fact, be seized to cover your debts. But this can happen with either the government, a private creditor like a bank, or a quasi-private entity like a HOA. If you run up debts that you don't pay the courts can seize your property, garnish your wages, and otherwise do what is necessary to satisfy your debts. In the past even your freedom was at stake. In the 19th century we had debtors prisons. And in biblical times there was debt slavery. By contrast, seizing property is pretty tame.
Taxes are not debts, though. Taxes are taxes. If you want to wrangle words about it, I suppose you could claim that past-due, unpaid taxes become debts... but what they then are is a "tax debt".
Oh please. There are many ways one can get into debt without taking out loans. Failure to pay taxes after they are due is one of them. Getting a judgement issued against you is another. For example, Alex Jones owes millions to the Sandy Hook families. None of them ever loaned him any money. Divorce is a 3rd way that many people get into debt. If you owe child support that isn't because your child once loaned you money.
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