Elon Musk. Twitter. Babylon Bee.

[JohnH]

Property is an outcome of self-government and is a fundamental part of being human. If you have some 3 year olds in a room, they will quickly decide whose stuff belongs to whom (and might come to an adult to request enforcement in the event of one of the 3 year olds not respecting the others' private property rights).

[Robert]

Where do you find that in the Constitution?

It is inferred in the Constitution. I see the Declaration of Independence as a foundation or "preamble" of the Constitution.

[Ken]

Where do you find that in the Constitution?

It is inferred in the Constitution. I see the Declaration of Independence as a foundation or "preamble" of the Constitution.

That is a new one for me. As far as I know, property rights are mainly state and local and nowhere really addressed in Federal law much less the Constitution except for the 5th Amendment takings clause. Which is really about limiting government powers but not about disputes between people or the granting of property ownership rights to begin with.

If you own property it is your local county that issues and maintains the deed under state law not federal law. And property disputes are handled in state court, not federal court. Likewise if you own a car it is registered with the state not federal government. And if your car is stolen you call your local police, not the FBI.

[JohnH]

Ken,

Have you heard of "common law"?

[barnhart]

Stop paying property taxes and you will find out who really claims ownership.

[temporal1]

^^no problem with contnuing above discussion ..
adding this about the astronauts’ return

Tomorrow? - Tuesday March 18?

Starliner astronauts to return with Crew-9 sooner than expected: Time, how to watch
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nat ... 486268007/

March 18 / “Stranded astronauts Butch Wilmore and Suni Williams safely splash down in SpaceX capsule after 9 months on ISS”
https://nypost.com/2025/03/18/us-news/s ... -to-earth/



March 19 / “Elon Musk Accuses Biden Of Blocking SpaceX Help To Bring Sunita Williams, NASA Astronauts Home For 'Political Reasons'”
https://www.ibtimes.co.uk/elon-musk-acc ... ns-1731979

- - - - - - -

Disclaimer: [not a worship topic]
i’m adding this strictly as a CURRENT EVENTS item, i’m mostly ambivalent about space travel, but i appreciate it’s of great interest to others. gov is invested/taxpayer dollars. i appreciate the engineering and human commitments. it’s not for me!

i started the topic for much the same reason. ambivalent about Musk, never joined Twitter (or X) .. never joined B Bee, altho i’ve enjoyed various BB pieces. as i described early on, i thought of Musk as eccentric, paid no attention. he got my attention with Twitter - again, CURRENT EVENTS. i’m not as put-off by him as before. he’s affecting the world and CURRENT EVENTS. full stop.

i wish him well, and pray for the Holy Spirit to touch him, protect and guide him.
as i do for many many people, and myself.

[Robert]

Stop paying property taxes and you will find out who really claims ownership.

I can pay my taxes and still disagree with the amount I am being taxed.

[JohnH]

Stop paying property taxes and you will find out who really claims ownership.

Property taxes are no different than sales or income taxes. Someone who doesn’t pay them will eventually lose whatever property they have, and real estate is the easiest for the government to seize to pay off a judgment.

The fact the government levies a tax doesn’t mean we don’t own property or that a natural right to property doesn’t exist as a part of natural law.

[Ken]

Ken,

Have you heard of "common law"?

If we followed "common law" when it comes to property in this country then Native Americans would still possess 95% of North America.

[barnhart]

Stop paying property taxes and you will find out who really claims ownership.

I can pay my taxes and still disagree with the amount I am being taxed.

Certainly. But what does it say about claims of absolute individual ownership. I wouldn't have interjected if the argument was simply "I want to pay less", it's the "taxation violates my individual right of ownership" argument I am suspicious of.