Telegram as a vehicle for war propaganda

[temporal1]

I still think the best source for valid information is to look to the free press outlets where high standards of journalistic integrity are being maintained. When telegram or twitter or pundits or ideologues or politicians become a primary source if information - the battle for truth is lost.

you’re a true believer, and consistent.
i don’t follow telegram or twitter or other, never heard of telegram before Josh referred to it.

but, the importance they have in keeping your “free press” to any standards at all is beyond dispute (in my opinion).

i believe it’s possible standards were higher in the past (?) - entirely possible, when there were more “understood+respected” standards. however, esp following WJC as POTUS, setting “relativism” as the gold standard for law, for society, for personal choice: No.

It’s misleading as can be.
The old labels, NYT, WSJ, CBS, PBS, etc., are still used! They are valuable! Not the same products.

Like disneyland used to be primarily focused on children+family entertainment, now, under the same name, it’s a conduit for biased politics, pushing amoral agenda, et al.

This is NOT what i want. It’s what i loathe to see. It makes me ill. It’s a terrible blow to societies. “Relativism”

i’m pretty sure ..
most people would LOVE to be able to trust or even “mostly trust” the mainstream. respect. they have fallen short.
since a long time ago.

[Bootstrap]

Part of the problem here is that the west is pretending that anything not anti-Russia is “misinformation”.

Do you believe that war propaganda exists? Do you believe it is found on Telegram? Do you believe that a police state with a military dictatorship might falsify things in war propaganda in order to justify invading its neighbor? If so, how exactly are you verifying the things you read on Telegram before passing them on as gospel truth? If not, why not?

In the original post, I quoted the same person you praised in your quote. He warns people not to believe this stuff without carefully verifying it, and says that it is being used to spread hate.

Do you no longer trust him? If so, what changed your mind?

[PetrChelcicky]

Bootstrap,
do you believe that a non-police state without a military dictatorship can spread propaganda for an invasion into a foreign country as well?
I don't see what the police or the dictatorship have to do with this. All the government needs is a lot of cronies in the mainstream media. And a good propaganda strategy ("we are the party of the saints, the other are the party of the sinners - we "defend" "our" values etc.)

[PetrChelcicky]

I have learned a lot from Internet sources. For example the Jussie Smollett hoax was faithfully re-narrated by the WSJ and the NYT at a time when Internet sources had already looked into the story and found inconsistencies. Without external forces (the local police got miffed by the costs for a useless search and took the risk to accuse Smollett), the WSJ and NYT would still now re-narrate their original stories.
Internet sources like Telegram are indispensable for to find the weak points in the ruling narratives.

[Dan Z]

I have learned a lot from Internet sources. For example the Jussie Smollett hoax was faithfully re-narrated by the WSJ and the NYT at a time when Internet sources had already looked into the story and found inconsistencies. Without external forces (the local police got miffed by the costs for a useless search and took the risk to accuse Smollett), the WSJ and NYT would still now re-narrate their original stories.
Internet sources like Telegram are indispensable for to find the weak points in the ruling narratives.

This makes sense to me Petr - freedom of information on sources like Telegram can help provide a check to errant media narratives. But the other side of the coin is that these sources, because of their lack of accountability, can be huge unchecked founts of disinformation and propaganda as well. We've had plenty of examples of this of late. Because of this, I believe that anyone relying on unaccountable Twitter or Telegram sources for their narrative is likely creating a narrative of their own choosing - regardless of the truth.

I'll restate that the best practice is to look to a cross-section of institutionally accountable free-press (i.e. non-governmental, balanced, fair-minded) sources with a proven track record of journalistic integrity, (yes - kept in check by unaccountable alternate sources). The world is still served by good journalism - one has to be a bit discerning to find it in the information age.

[Josh]

Part of the problem here is that the west is pretending that anything not anti-Russia is “misinformation”.

Do you believe that war propaganda exists? Do you believe it is found on Telegram? Do you believe that a police state with a military dictatorship might falsify things in war propaganda in order to justify invading its neighbor? If so, how exactly are you verifying the things you read on Telegram before passing them on as gospel truth? If not, why not?

In the original post, I quoted the same person you praised in your quote. He warns people not to believe this stuff without carefully verifying it, and says that it is being used to spread hate.

Do you no longer trust him? If so, what changed your mind?

Yes. I heard for four years that America’s election of Trump was illegitimate. I heard America is a police state where police gun down anyone they want.

So yes, I believe a police state exists that promotes war propaganda to invade other countries. That police state is the United States of America.

[nett]

I'll restate that the best practice is to look to a cross-section of institutionally accountable free-press (i.e. non-governmental, balanced, fair-minded) sources with a proven track record of journalistic integrity, (yes - kept in check by unaccountable alternate sources). The world is still served by good journalism - one has to be a bit discerning to find it in the information age.

Unfortunately, I'm afraid you are looking at things through rose-colored glasses. This latest conflict is a perfect example of just how untruthful the "free-press" has been. Numerous fake stories faithfully printed without any vetting whatsoever.

[Szdfan]

I'll restate that the best practice is to look to a cross-section of institutionally accountable free-press (i.e. non-governmental, balanced, fair-minded) sources with a proven track record of journalistic integrity, (yes - kept in check by unaccountable alternate sources). The world is still served by good journalism - one has to be a bit discerning to find it in the information age.

Unfortunately, I'm afraid you are looking at things through rose-colored glasses. This latest conflict is a perfect example of just how untruthful the "free-press" has been. Numerous fake stories faithfully printed without any vetting whatsoever.

Do you believe that you have the capacity and ability to vet which stories are true and which ones are fake?

[Bootstrap]

Bootstrap,
do you believe that a non-police state without a military dictatorship can spread propaganda for an invasion into a foreign country as well?
I don't see what the police or the dictatorship have to do with this. All the government needs is a lot of cronies in the mainstream media. And a good propaganda strategy ("we are the party of the saints, the other are the party of the sinners - we "defend" "our" values etc.)

I think the United States did something like this to justify invading Iraq. And you know what? The mainstream media was quite good at figuring that out. Fairly rapidly. And so was the international community.

The United States also did that to justify the Vietnam War. But it took much longer for mainstream media to uncover the lies behind the Gulf of Tonkin incident.

I'm not sure the Iraqis or Vietnamese were impressed by our democratic system of government. But I do think it's relevant that Russia wants to take away freedoms that Ukranians have risked their lives for, which is why Russia invaded in 2014 in the first place. Russians can be jailed for 15 years if they even say the obvious truth that Russia has invaded and is at war with Ukraine. During Vietnam and Iraq, at least Americans were able to speak freely.

[Bootstrap]

Do you believe that you have the capacity and ability to vet which stories are true and which ones are fake?

FWIW, the best way to demonstrate that ability is to show your work.

Bellingcat is particularly good at this, they have very good coverage of some of the claims made on these Telegram channels.

This is helpful for beginners: A Beginner's Guide to Social Media Verification