Sattler College Turmoil

[Judas Maccabeus]

Some of my best learning experiences were outside of formal lab time. We could sign out a disarticularted skeleton, and practice recognizing bones blindfolded. Try doing that at a “contract” lab. Restraining unknowns in micro for the third time. Getting a work-study job as an assistant. Does not happen in a contract lab. They will hand out those plums to their own students.

What I am saying is they are not getting a “world class “ education in the sciences. What they are getting is “University of Phoenix.”

I think that’s a little harsh. We could not check out skeletons or bones in a community college and the hours to practice were limited.
The school I went to though was considered to have the best two year RN program.

There are differences between a major research school and a community college.

My cousin went to Vanderbilt and took the bone box with her on a trip over Thanksgiving etc once (which took some explaining at the airport security X-ray checkpoint).

I declined one of my former colleagues (a NM physician with dual boards and a Ph.D) offer of his bone box for our school. No paperwork, he got it while he was in med school in Gualadahara. I was concerned that we might get into trouble for possession of “human remains “ without the proper documentation. For all I know, it may have originated in a grave robbery.

For a fact, I could at one time, recognize which bone was placed in my hand, blindfolded, including laterally. Could usually get close, even on vertebrae. My entire class could do this. It was the result of having the resources available to us.

Now, if someone is caring for you, do you want someone who went into clinical with a rock solid knowledge of anatomy, or someone who has been trained to excel on the MCAT exam?

[Soloist]

Now, if someone is caring for you, do you want someone who went into clinical with a rock solid knowledge of anatomy, or someone who has been trained to excel on the MCAT exam?

I’m not really concerned if the nurse or doc (depending on specialties) remembers all the names of the bones.
I do agree that getting trained for the test results in a worse doctor or nurse.
An orthopedic specialist should definitely be able to identify any bone. A Urologist on the other hand doesn’t need to remember the foot bones.
Our community college actually offered a cadaver class which I almost took.

[disciple]

After 81 pages of replies, it seems to me that this thread has split tracks.

The original post was regarding the turmoil surrounding the original board confronting the founder, and resigning; also the president resigning; also the new hand-picked board resigning soon after being appointed; also the college (& FOTW's) posture toward Conservative Anabaptist churches; much of this was about the college being a non-denominational college (with certain founding precepts) drifting from its original charter toward being heavily influenced by FOTW leadership and doctrine/practice, without explicitly changing the college charter.

Now there is a bunch of discussion about labs, first-class education, etc., which, in my opinion, is a different topic.

[Josh]

Now, if someone is caring for you, do you want someone who went into clinical with a rock solid knowledge of anatomy, or someone who has been trained to excel on the MCAT exam?

How about "neither"? Penn has a pilot program that removes the requirement to take or pass the MCAT... if you're from a designated minority group:

https://www.thecollegefix.com/penn-medi ... uire-mcat/

The University of Pennsylvania expanded a program that admitted minority and other underrepresented college applicants into its Perelman School of Medicine under special criteria, including waiving the Medical College Admission Test requirement.

The program has “officially broadened” this year to include students from Howard University, Oakwood University, Xavier University of Louisiana, Morehouse College and Spelman College, according to a Perelman School of Medicine news release.

There is quite a bit of pressure to get rid of the MCAT because it's "racist":

https://www.newsweek.com/removing-mcat- ... on-1775471

Every step of the admissions process has been designed to keep me and other individuals underrepresented in medicine, including Black and Latinx applicants, out of medical school.

Medical schools have historically been dominated by white men from privileged backgrounds, making no room for racial minorities, poor individuals, and those with other minority statuses (LGBTQ, rural, first-generation).

To be sure, evaluating applicants on their ability to become a good doctor is of the utmost importance. But to do so, a holistic review process without reliance on a MCAT score, ideally created and advised by the AAMC, must be uniformly implemented across U.S. medical schools. Many other characteristics matter more than a standardized test score, such as an individual's willingness to acknowledge the role of structural forces, such as racism, in health care.

Forget the MCAT or having access to a good lab; what these people think makes a good doctor is someone who has "willingness to acknowledge the role of structural forces, such as racism, in health care".

Given the direction Sattler is going, I could see them joining forces with people who think such things. They may be on to something. Why bother with expensive labs when you can just instead have a few classes of identity-politics indoctrination and racial grievance training?

[Ken]

Given the direction Sattler is going, I could see them joining forces with people who think such things. They may be on to something. Why bother with expensive labs when you can just instead have a few classes of identity-politics indoctrination and racial grievance training?

Is that what Sattler is doing?

[Josh]

Given the direction Sattler is going, I could see them joining forces with people who think such things. They may be on to something. Why bother with expensive labs when you can just instead have a few classes of identity-politics indoctrination and racial grievance training?

Is that what Sattler is doing?

Overall, they and their sponsor church, Followers of the Way, have been drifting in a liberal-progressive direction.

[Heirbyadoption]

Why bother with expensive labs when you can just instead have a few classes of identity-politics indoctrination and racial grievance training?

So is Sattler actually moving toward something like this, or are you just using rather specific but nonetheless hypothetical examples to illustrate the liberal-progressive direction you feel they are taking? And if these were just illustrative hypotheticals, could you offer a few real-life examples of things they actually ARE doing as a result of their aforementioned liberal-progressive movement?

[Josh]

Why bother with expensive labs when you can just instead have a few classes of identity-politics indoctrination and racial grievance training?

So is Sattler actually moving toward something like this, or are you just using rather specific but nonetheless hypothetical examples to illustrate the liberal-progressive direction you feel they are taking? And if these were just illustrative hypotheticals, could you offer a few real-life examples of things they actually ARE doing as a result of their aforementioned liberal-progressive movement?

The leadership in charge of FotW and Sattler is moving in that direction, and has been for a while, along with moving away from traditional Anabaptist positions (such as not going to political protests).

[Heirbyadoption]

Why bother with expensive labs when you can just instead have a few classes of identity-politics indoctrination and racial grievance training?

So is Sattler actually moving toward something like this, or are you just using rather specific but nonetheless hypothetical examples to illustrate the liberal-progressive direction you feel they are taking? And if these were just illustrative hypotheticals, could you offer a few real-life examples of things they actually ARE doing as a result of their aforementioned liberal-progressive movement?

The leadership in charge of FotW and Sattler is moving in that direction, and has been for a while, along with moving away from traditional Anabaptist positions (such as not going to political protests).

I understand the thought. So I take it from your parenthetical that they now participate in political protests...? Might you have another real-life example or two of things they actually ARE doing as a result of this liberal-progressive movement?

[Josh]

The leadership in charge of FotW and Sattler is moving in that direction, and has been for a while, along with moving away from traditional Anabaptist positions (such as not going to political protests).

I understand the thought. So I take it from your parenthetical that they now participate in political protests...? Might you have another real-life example or two of things they actually ARE doing as a result of this liberal-progressive movement?
[/quote]

The habit of political entanglements (consistently on the leftist-progressive side of things) has been going on for 4 years. I would not trust any kind of "Anabaptist" institution run by people who are doing that kind of thing to not eventually go in the same direction.